Do you support transitioning at all?

[UnlockedXCX]

I somewhat do, I will admit. I think it's okay if an adult wants to take hormones, dress as they'd like to, be treated as M or F, or even change their name. I'll respect it all. However I don't agree with them being allowed into single sex spaces or conversations (a gay trans person is functionally a straight person, despite what they say, and a gay FtM shouldn't try to date gay guys for example).

I question if this is a common view or is it niche in these more gender critical spaces.

No.

How can you support something that is so obviously impossible? There’s no transitioning because you can’t change your sex.

This is true. But I think, for example, that a man can become a 'trans woman'. To me that is just a subcategory of man. If I'm being generous maybe they do occupy the social idea of a 'woman', but of course, that does not mean they're female/an actual woman.

I'm still working through these thoughts!

No.

No one is transitioning. They are making body modifications that change how they look but not what they are. We need to stop using that like it has some meaning.
Years ago I would have said yes, but clearly dressing as the opposite sex is not enough for people, they want to ‘live’ as the opposite sex, therefore it’s not work with society as a whole.
I also object to people taking often harmful hormones and it being made to be socially acceptable. It’s not okay. Testosterone can have horrible side effects for women, it’s not just a cosmetic change. The NHS should not be supporting it.

Dress as you like has been a theme for centuries, especially women. Less men but still.

Take hormones, crack on. Live with the effects.

Treated as M or F, what does it even mean? Or SHOULD it mean?

People can where what they want (within the realms of normal decency please) I am not the fashion police.

Hormones I have a problem with - I don't think we should encourage, or doctors allow, cosmetic hormone usage that absolutely leads to health issues. First, Do No Harm and all that.

'Treated' and M or F - nonsense, and sexist nonsense that entrenches societal ideas I don't support.

Name change - sure, but, on the assumption that they make it clear that 'Debbie' was once 'Dave' so people don't make assumptions that can lead to safe-guarding issues.

So on the whole, I guess that's a no - because it's impossible/harmful to them/harmful to others.

Do I support men wearing dresses and skirts, wearing their hair long and wearing make up? Sure, why not? I wear jeans and trainers, short hair and no make up.

Do I support people taking cross sex hormones and having surgery to look more like the opposite sex? Well yes, to a point, as long as they are properly informed and consented, and don’t expect to get the surgery and treatment for all the complications on the NHS.

Do I support males who call themselves women having access to women’s single-sex spaces? No.

Do I support the transing of children? Absolutely not.

I don't think we have any evidence that either social or medical transition is good for people's mental or physical health. All the research is either very poorly done or says there's no benefit.

I would prefer society to accept feminine men and masculine women, and for them to be able to get proper therapy if they are dysphoric about their body.

I would also prefer that men who get off on dressing as women do it in private with each other like we accept people do for other kinks that aren't widely accepted in public but aren't harmful if done in private.

If a man wants to wear a dress and call himself Shirley, I'm here for that. He's still a man, shouldn't be in women's spaces, shouldn't be involved in womens sports, competitions, awards, scholarships, shouldn't be invited into discussions about women's issues, shouldn't use his 'journey' to trump or invalidate the feelings or opinions of women, if he wants to date women he is a heterosexual male who likes to wear dresses, not a lesbian. No woman should be told they are discriminating because they don't want to date him, gay or straight.

Treated as M or F, what does it even mean? Or SHOULD it mean?

Outside of using their pronouns, I'm not sure. I guess they want to be treated according to the stereotypes that surround both sexes + have their preferred pronouns used.

I am happy to support gender dysphoria. Live as you imagine a woman or man does just don't expect me or anyone else to pretend you've actually changed sex. A post operative transwoman has gone on a long hard difficult journey and if she's respectful of women and their spaces I will be respectful of her whilst quietly remaining sure in my belief she is actually a he and just being polite with my pronoun use. For me the line is crossed if a transwoman ceases to be respectful imposes on a woman's short list, safe space sport. And if said transwoman commits any sexual or violent crime all gets are off.

I don’t think medical resources should be used on making a functional body less functional

I don’t think people should be able to parade their fetishes in public, whether that’s pup play, SMD, or sissy.

I don’t think other people should have any power to complain about perfectly normal language used about them. So no complaints about calling a man a man, a woman she, etc.

Do I care what clothes people wear? Not particularly, subject to the above.

How do you ”treat someone as M or F”?
How does that work if you don’t allow them in single sex spaces or conversations?
It’s all delusional make believe and I refuse to pander to it.

Also I think we got into this ridiculous situation by ‘being kind’ and giving into their request to change our language and calling males ‘she’, which has really messed with people’s heads.

I think the definition of 'transitioning' is key.

What you describe is a person of one sex doing things to themselves, choosing modes of dress usually associated with the other sex - so far so whatever, as long as they are a consenting adult.

But if transitioning means changing sex, as in TWAW, that's simply not possible because humans can't change their sex, so they haven't 'transitioned' at all, they've just taken hormones and bought new outfits. They are still whatever sex they were born as.

The next thing is more problematic - expecting to be treated as if they actually ARE the sex they imitate?
That's unreasonable, because everybody knows [don't they? basic biology!] that you can't change your sex, so somebody claiming to have done so is claiming an impossibility, and it's unreasonable to expect other people - and the law, the media, education, medicine etc. - to go along with something they know to be impossible.

Needless to say, somebody has expressed this better than I ever could:

'Dress however you please. Call yourself whatever you like. Sleep with any consenting adult who’ll have you. Live your best life in peace and security..

Humans can't change sex, and you can't expect people to suspend their knowledge of that fact just to make trans people feel better.

No. I listened to a segment on radio 2 last year on the Jeremy Vine show about body dysmorphia and Dr Sarah Jarvis, their regular medic, referencing NHS guidelines, was insistent that it shouldn't be affirmed, that therapy should be used instead.

So why is gender dysmorphia treated with hormones and surgery and not therapy? It makes no sense.

Men often seem to develop breasts but retain their genitals. It's just porn gone crazy.

Girls are carrying out the ultimate self disfigurement.

It's awful.

No. It’s impossible to change sex. Mentally unwell people who are told they can change sex are being lied to.

No.

It's hocus pocus nonsense to pander to men's bizarre fantasies about what they think being a woman is.

Men (trans women) - leave us women out of it / children out of it ( we need our safe space free from adult males thank you)
Women/young girls( trans men) - psychological/autism assessment required for self acceptance/ sexuality acceptance etc (Speaking as a women diagnosed late in life with autism who could have been subjected to the trans bandwagon as a very confused teen).
No one actually transitions though. That's bollocks.

I do not care if somebody wishes to present in such a way traditionally associated with the opposite sex, or want to be known as a name traditionally associated with the opposite sex.
I don’t think it makes you change sex, and I think it’s sad that people feel so disassociated with their own sexed bodies they would want to deny them. I would rather gender as a concept was jettisoned and we could all feel comfortable dressing and presenting however we felt most at home.

I think adults can do what they want to their own bodies BUT I judge the so-called doctors and scientists who present this badly researched, unnecessary, but very profitable cosmetic surgery and hormone treatment as a panacea for mental discomfort very poorly. It comes with host of life long medical problems. It’s neglectful at best, seriously unethical in most cases.

I think the surgeons who offer it to children should be in prison.

No.

I don't think hormones should be available for anything other than a genuine hormonal imbalance such as precocious puberty or delayed puberty which requires intervention to allow a body to develop as close to naturally as possible. Or for HRT for sex specific imbalances ie low testosterone or low estrogen / menopause related but solely in terms of your sex, not gender identity.

I think men having breast implants and women having non clinically necessary mastectomy is absolutely grotesque and the surgeons should be struck off.

I think men and women undergoing phalloplasty, penectomy, castration etc for anything other than a clinical necessity is even more grotesque and should not be indulged at all. Surgeons should also be struck off.

Gender dysphoria is a mental health disorder. It mostly self resolves with time and without indulgence.

Society should not be supporting or encouraging people to carry out such atrocious and frequently irreversible self harm.

I think there are times when it might really help someone

it should be an absolute last resort for mature adults( say aged over 25)

it isn’t about changing sex - it’s about creating that more comfortable illusion for people with severe mental health issues

no one who doesn’t have mental health issues should be considering it - you should live with your whole self as they always say and that doesn’t mean chopping bits off

i wish people could be more relaxed about clothing and sexuality and character and have less rigid ideas about gender

No. Going along with this nonsense has caused massive damage to (mostly autistic) children, women's rights and the hard won rights and acceptance of gay men and lesbian women. Enough is enough. It's a mental illness and / or a fetish and needs to go back to being treated as such.

I've just got to the stage where I don't see why we have to pander to it. To pretend someone is what they're not.

I mean I'm an atheist but I understand other people believe very strongly in a religion or a divine being or an afterlife but no one I've ever come across has said I have to believe or pretend to believe just because they do.

I can't think of anything like the demands of trans activists. It's like some kind of extremist regime like North Korea.

I hope we get to the point where men and women can wear what they want, have whatever hobbies they want etc without anyone commenting so "living as a man" or "living as a woman" are redundant concepts.

Plus men and women having full equality and men not being a threat to women in any way, but o have a feeling that utopia is a long way off