Simone Biles attacks Riley Gaines

[ItsCoolForCats]

Simone Biles has come out in defence of males in women's sports, and has attacked Riley Gaines for fighting against it. She said on Twitter:

"@RileyGaines
You’re truly sick, all of this campaigning because you lost a race. Straight up sore loser. You should be uplifting the trans community and perhaps finding a way to make sports inclusive OR creating a new avenue where trans feel safe in sports. Maybe a transgender category IN ALL sports!! But instead… You bully them… One things for sure is no one in sports is safe with you around!!!!!"

So, so disappointing. Both my daughters do gymnastics and are huge SB fans, so it is awful for her to show such contempt towards RG, who is fighting for a level playing field for women and girls in sport. And to suggest a separate category as if nobody has ever thought of that and tried it 🤦🏻‍♀️

The NY Times has started, very tentatively, to allow some sex realism on the op-ed pages. The amazing thing is that the majority of the readers are usually more sex realist than the writer. The position they're afraid of voicing is not nearly as unpopular with normie Democrats, or even the elite Democrats who read the NYT, as the liberal media think.

I assume the liberal media are following their own internal and external incentives.

Even most conservative media are pretty cautious on the subject. Listen sometime to Megyn Kelly talking about her journey away from Be Kindism to sex realism. She's now her own boss, so she can afford to be outspoken. But she says there's no way she would have got away with putting forward GC views on the air when she was at Fox.

It's grotesque. Biles just comes off as really unconcerned - I'm alright, Jack, essentially. She had a rough upbringing as a toddler & you might think she would understand that this puts v vulnerable women in danger across the board. I suppose a lot of celebs born in hard situations forget & then get enmeshed in ivory towers.

@SionnachRuadh Interesting. I guess trans ideology serves male interests, which sits more comfortably with very right wing conservatives than sticking up for women

And you are happy to condemn Riley’s views not based on anything that she said (unless I’ve missed your links?), but on something said 13 years ago by a man she recently interviewed?

Do you also dismiss all views subsequently expressed by interviewers of Muslim people? Their religious views go quite a bit further than Cameron’s.

No.

You can identify the accuracy of citations on Wikipedia through doing your very own research.

I have looked at articles cited on Wikipedia and found them to be very much false and hugely biased and completely misrepresentative of the truth. Don’t just think because it has a citation on Wikipedia that it must be true. Follow the citation and then fact check as far as you need to on an article until you find the original source. And from the original source find out what was said or done. And if necessary, fucking go further and find out exactly what people believe or their values.

It is like the accusations of ‘far right’. What definition of ‘far right’ is being used. I have seen people being accused of being far right on MN and Wikipedia who are merely centrist. But once that label of far right is applied, it gets replicated and repeated by those who never do their own research to check.

I suspect with Fox, they got burned with some culture wars subjects, saw how the tide had turned with LGB, and assumed T was a subset of the same thing. Also, connected to that, the Christian Right was rapidly declining and actual social conservatives had less weight.

Outside of very religious publications that don't impact the mainstream, for a long time the only voice in US conservative media against trans ideology was Maddie Kearns at National Review, and she's Scottish.

I don't really see why it matters that Gaines has views on other topics I strongly disagree with. What's relevant here is what she has said and done on the trans issue, and on that she has been admirable in my view. I think only a young conservative could have done what she has done as she hasn't as much to lose - if she moves in conservative circles she isn't going to fall out with her family/ lose all her friends etc for speaking out.

I am so sorry, I misread the ADF podcast blurb. They were talking about religious views conflicting w trans rights, not with anything else. I thought they were discussing the ADF's general work, but it was specifically relating to a trans case in schools. I have been doing a lot of research into the US right recently, and in the podcasts I listen to generally if a conservative host invites a fellow conservative on they agree w the major issues, whereas anti-woke liberal guests are more likely to be brought bc the host agrees w on specific thing, eg. Trans. Gaines is a conservative Christian, and most disagree w lgb rights, while that doesn't necessarily necessarily mean they are hateful as such ofc, though some are.

I should not have made assumptions about the ADF interview just based on the blurb. Reading about more extreme stuff can make one over suspicious, and I am very sorry.

Additionally, I'm a young carer for my gran atm and this has meant a lot of lost sleep as she was ill recently, it was a poor decision to speak so soon on the ADF.

I repeat, I completely support Gaines' trans work, and I am glad to hear she may not be anti lgb. I hope Biles meets her comeuppance for this!

Just catching up with your posts. That sounds positive.

I do think that we shouldn’t self censor or not listen to an important voice just because some people might misuse it for their own ends on different topics. That has been the cause of much silencing of women which I think we can all agree, it is important to push against.

I hope your gran feels better soon and you get some much needed rest.

I would definitely be suspicious of the views of a conservative Muslim podcaster who interviewed many Muslims w v socially conservative views, including about women & gay people. Gaines does a lot of good interviews w GC campaigners, but also many w conservatives who are anti-abortion, feminism etc, often linked to conservative Christianity. She herself is a conservative Christian.

You know I've been on MN a while now and nowhere have I seen the 'men can become women' crew give me one good reasoned argument as to why anyone should hold that view.
However, it is slowly dawning on me that I have also not seen any poster making a good case for me embracing left-wing feminism. It's just guilt trips, slander and time-wasting posting.

Exactly. That's why I said that the best way to ascertain someone's views is to read what they write themselves, or watch interviews in full, not just clips. But ofc this is a bit harder for events w multiple sources of what was done, you have to just read all views and try & ascertain which is most accurate.

I agree about far right being used indiscriminately. Starting w the idiots who unironically call mumsnet fascist!

John Oliver's segment on Riley is brilliant

Ok. Thank you for explaining. I can see that there has been a great deal of social media discussion and a lot of biased posting about ADF in the past from a range of left wing organisations and people.

I have been concerned by people making accusations about Riley Gaines. I wanted to know what I was missing. I think she is brave. I think she has taken on so much at her age. I don’t agree with everything she posts, but I rarely find anyone I fully agree with. I do agree with much of what she says about female athletes needing their category protected

But isn’t it so time consuming to have to keep going to find original source to establish an accurate representation of truth? What a time to live in! Where we cannot trust our media and have to continually keep checking them! I can certainly understand why people don’t do it for everything they take in and process.

I def agree that her advocacy on this has been outstanding. I didn't know that she had been assaulted, that is vile & gives me an extra ton of respect for courage to carry on through that.. The worry I have is about the the rising tide of more regressive policies that some conservative anti-TRA people support., to varying levels, some fairly moderate, others v extreme. I see that Gaines' views are more ambiguous than I thought (apart from abortion). Moreover, hopefully there is not much appetite for dismantling women's or lgb rights, or not as much as the dangerous T stuff, at any rate.
In one episode I see that Gaines speaks to Kara Dansky about women's and lesbian rights. That will be interesting to listen to, a d maybe reveal more of Gaines' views. Gaines seems ambivalent about feminism as a while, but v pro women on many issues.

Best wishes for your Gran and for you.

Hmm, I'm not trying to guilt trip anyone for being right wing, nor did I want to slander Gaines. I made some assumptions too fast about her from limitited info, which I have apologised and explained why. I do think that people should be aware that GC supporters gaining power now may have regressive views in other areas, but that may not be the case of Gaines (except on abortion)

I've stated that I agree w any alliances to combat trans & I respect Gaines' bravery, esp after knowing she was attacked. 😡

I feel like I am fully used to living in the Upside Down now. Almost every week someone I previously admired says something awful, and someone awful says something good. I don't have the energy to feel angry or disappointed by any more people and have accepted a lot of people just talk shite about things they know nothing about. It will come back to bite them one day when they'll all have to disown their previous statements.

Ah thank you, that's v kind. She is getting better slowly.

I am sorry for the confusion, I don't want to spread misinformation and want the thread to focus on the issues at hand, not derail.

However, would it be OK to ask how the ADF has been misrepresented? They have a history of opposing the decriminalisation of homosexuality, linking it to paedophilia (in their Lawrence vs Texas brief), opposing school info on STDs, gay adoption and civil partnerships (not just marriage), opposed a 2005 Day against LGB bullying, supporting conversion therapy group Exodus International, supporting Dobbs vs Jackson, allowing Catholic adoption agencies to refuse Jewish couples, restricting abortion & contraceptives (this last is a bit murky as I suppport conscience exemptions, but they seem to go beyond that).

They ofc have a right to these views, and their legal advocacy. And I have a right to find these views disturbing. How have they been misrepresented? This info is from the public records of what they litigate for, I don't see how it could be misrepresented. They are quite open about their beliefs themselves

Just to add, if you like maybe you could reply via PM, esp if it will be a long reply, so we don't clog up the thread. I really don't want to derail it anymore..

It's definitely v bad we have to check everything. Media lies & bias always existed, but it's awful rn. Still, if one hasn't time to check, scepticism is always best, but it shouldn't be that way ofc..

BTW, on the ADF tho, I do agree ofc w their trans advocacy, this should definitely be supported. I know the state of left wing advocacy on GC stuff is disgraceful. I find most of their other views terrible, but I know their advocacy on this has been essential

Thank you, I am sorry for the confusion. Oh certainly, censorship of any kind is v dangerous. Everyone should be able to voice their beliefs and debate. And as I've said, any support on trans is essential, purity testing alliances etc is ridiculous.

But otoh, if GC people are working w someone, I don't think it's good to refrain from all criticism for a united front.. The backlash against trans has also included other things that many here would disagree w regarding women's rights etc. Cooperating w people who may campaign against stuff we support etc is essential, but otoh it's important to be aware that influential figures on the rise may, and in many cases do, use their position to oppose women's rights etc. Eg. Many of the factions influencing the White House rn.

Oh no. I always like her- what else has she done? I thought perhaps success had made her unpleasant, but sounds like she was already unpleasant?