Simone Biles attacks Riley Gaines

[ItsCoolForCats]

Simone Biles has come out in defence of males in women's sports, and has attacked Riley Gaines for fighting against it. She said on Twitter:

"@RileyGaines
You’re truly sick, all of this campaigning because you lost a race. Straight up sore loser. You should be uplifting the trans community and perhaps finding a way to make sports inclusive OR creating a new avenue where trans feel safe in sports. Maybe a transgender category IN ALL sports!! But instead… You bully them… One things for sure is no one in sports is safe with you around!!!!!"

So, so disappointing. Both my daughters do gymnastics and are huge SB fans, so it is awful for her to show such contempt towards RG, who is fighting for a level playing field for women and girls in sport. And to suggest a separate category as if nobody has ever thought of that and tried it 🤦🏻‍♀️

There’s a single word for that in German - Fachidiot. It translates roughly to ‘specialist idiot’. Someone who has great knowledge in one area but has little real understanding, or only a narrow perspective on subjects outside their area of expertise.

However, I cynically suspect SB is being very political here and looking at her popularity among the proponents of this anti scientific movement. Eye on the main chance for future positions. Where is the reward in supporting unfashionable people like other women?

For all alleged concern for the WNBA, I presume it would be fine and dandy to such activists if female basketball players (of any colour) were sidelined to enable mediocre males (of any colour) to cheat them out of their places, sponsorships and winnings. That would be progressive, you see. Ne’er a peep about that, I’d presume. Women’s rights (as a sex class) are apparently now to be relegated as ‘MAGA’. Jesus wept!

Also, the quip about RG being more akin to a man is very cheap. All because SG is calling this bs out for what it is.

SB is married to a big lad too, an american football player.

Unfortunately, the right wing is the only wing taking GC views seriously.

I agree that Biles bided her time to hop aboard the Nasser allegations. She should have lent her considerable prestige to the case much earlier.

Awful. I actually think a lot of smart intellectuals fit that descriptor, it's a great word.

I get so fed up w the WNBA hypocrisy. US women complain that no one watches & ask men to watch but then don't watch themselves! Women need to watch, otherwise it implies the sport isn't worth it except as a virtue signalling thing. Like some other sports, the fact that a lot of the WNBA are masculine lesbians means that many straight women don't want to watch as they can't relate as they would to a feminine (and to a lesser degree, straight) athlete. Not so many women are hardcore into basketball so the relatability part is more important for some, plus they won't lower the net, which would make it more exciting w more dunks.

So yes, if men infiltrate the WNBA I expect there would be no outcry.

I understand. After reading the horrific attacks Gaines has faced, I will agree she is definitely marvellously brave!

Hm, it's not by default a purity spiral imo to criticise someone. I have repeatedly stressed that I support Gaines' advocacy, support GC alliances w her & respect her courage, esp after knowing the danger she's been put in.

I think shutting down criticism by calling it a purity spiral is in a sense itself a purity spiral. Being GC is about debate & discussion. This should include the ability & willingness to allow criticism of people whose GC stance we support.

Good point. Even if TRAs try & spin it that way, we can stress that they are just continuing their misogynistic pattern of undermining the value of women's sports

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/simone-biles-spars-with-riley-gaines-over-trans-athlete-debate-launches-personal-attack-truly-sick/ar-AA1Gfpe5?ocid=BingNewsSerp

“I do think the focus on Gaines' case can be counterproductive as TRAs counter that she only tied for 5th place w Lia Thomas, rather than being blatantly beaten.”

I find it interesting that Biles is saying that Gaines is essentially a mediocre female for coming in 5th (once) to Thomas who by any measure was a very mediocre male athlete (ranked 462nd) before taking the positions of female athletes.

I think that its also worth noting that when Gaines started her campaign, she had to do so after leaving her college as if she had said anything whilst there she would have been removed from the college, and the same goes for those girls/women that have started court cases.
This is not as simple as they are against men in women's sports.
They are fighting against the whole system which has let them and the current crop of female athletes down.

You seemed to me be saying that Women from the UK that post here cannot really understand where Riley Gaines is coming from, because their experiences and background are surely so different?

She's caught up in the typical American style politics of Identity, whereby her blackness is automatically aligned with other perceived oppressed groups....and according to this narrative those with '"trans identities' are an oppressed group.. White women who vote Republican are by nature part of the oppressor class and so deserve no respect or support; in fact they are less than fully human and deserve scorn. She's just using trans people to augment her privilege".

It is not feminism because it is not woman centred. It is 'oppressed class' centred. So a hybrid, Americanised form of cultural Marxism.

But isn't she just being criticised for being white and Republican - as if this somehow discredits her stance on men in women's sports and spaces?

Though I'd be surprised if some of the people Simone is around, including other black athletes in her and her husband's peer group, aren't Republicans.

What would you say is the difference between between being very 'pro woman' and being 'a feminist'? Is 'feminism' holding to a certain ideological stance with definite articles of faith? Can you only be a feminist if you identify as Left wing and/or vote Democrat/Labour? What might conservative feminism look like....and do you consider it even possible?

Maybe, but when people become tribally aligned they often fall into familiar and comfortable grooves and narratives. There is no consistency or logic.

I could have said 'seems feminist on many issues'. I'm using 'pro woman' and 'feminist' interchangeably, although I sense that Gaines would feel happier saying she is pro woman than a feminist, as I think she is worried that modern feminists stress careers to much, judging by one episode I read the blurb of.

I am well acquainted with conservative feminism, actually: I regularly read a variety of right wing feminist or just female-authored publications to get a range of views, ranging from right- libertarian to conservative Catholic.

When I use the term feminist here, I'm referring to the majority FWR brand, which has some crossover w the most-publicised kinds, but also major differences : supportive of women's careers but also their right to be SAHM, pro choice and birth control if wanted, supportive of lesbian rights, gender critical, supportive of the most vulnerable kinds of women : eg. victims of violence, anti porn & prostitution, anti surrogacy, or at least v sceptical.

Yes, feminism can mean many different things, but I'm using it here to mean the majority view of FWR. All These views could be held theoretically by right wing women, though abortion, birth control & lesbian rights would be an issue for at least some factions, as could the role of careers.

On this thread some have criticised her anti abortion stance. I criticised her as I believed she was anti lgb rights, but now it is less clear given more info.

Yes, some did stupidly single her race out, but others criticised views rather than race or being a Republican.

To add though, I think nearly all here support her stance on trans and respect her bravery in the face of intimidation.

Wow, Biles is wrong on the trans issue but I am disgusted that people are blaming her for not speaking up on Nassar sooner. This is unacceptable victim blaming. Imagine having to talk about childhood sexual abuse in front of the world's media - incredibly brave and something you can only do when you are ready.

Yes, that's vile.

It's also stupid, because it's so obviously unreasonable that people who want men in women's sports can use it to try and discredit criticism. I don't know what the fuck some people are thinking.

So, she's not strongly in favour of abortion rights, but that has that got nothing to do with males competing in female events.

Why do people need to analyse her every position on every issue. She's not standing for election, She 's just speaking out on behalf of female sport and female dignity.

She hasn't done anything else. I have followed her success and watched the Netflix documentary and all she has done up to this point is be amazing at her sport and supportive to her team mates, not to mention speaking up about sexual abuse. The poster who called her a 'vicious thing' needs to look at herself and exactly why she thinks that on no evidence whatsoever.

Goodness, I've said multiple times from the start that I support Gaines' trans campaign and I support GC alliance with her. I respect her determination, as I've said... Likewise, ofc it' good that here we can discuss and disagree rather than getting banned for views as happens on Reddit.

Her podcast is pretty influential among US women & she's supposed to have some influence on Trump. He has certainly praised her. So arguably her other views have significance as she promotes them via her podcast. To be fair, the majority focuses on sport issues or general religion/family content. I imagine the sport stuff is the main draw for women who are interested.

I hope not. I've admired her since I was a kid watching the Rio Olympics. She always seemed pleasant, it's an odd outburst so suddenly. Fine way to kick off what may well be her retirement!

So, to clarify....

'Gaines is evil and has said hateful things about LGB people. You need to educate yourselves!!!'

'Evidence please'

'Podcast, something some dude said 13 years ago and Wikipedia (of all things) links'

'Podcast doesn't say that'

'Ah, I haven't actually listened to it'

Fuck me.

Quite. Still, we get a bonus definition of 'the majority FWR brand of feminism'.