New Pride window in Belfast City Hall

[TheWitchWon]

https://x.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1925882503417454717?t=LdPsR5-OaXqN7CJw6pFKlA&s=19

The slogan on the window

"Save Sodomy from Ulster"
It celebrates inclusivity apparently and is the Lord Mayor's proudest moment as the city's Mayor.

What relevance is this to FWR anyway?

Also I'm disappointed that there are posts here advocating for bricks to be chucked through this window.

Probably.

After all -

Gay writer says he can only write about gay stuff.
Alien suddenly becomes gay and becomes obsessed with fashion.
Also cries constantly.

Actually that is a rather revealing transformation as far as the state of what counts as homophobia now.

Just Books was a bookshop in Belfast. But not just a bookshop, it was a meeting place for those who wanted to break away from our segregated communities. Like Good Vibrations, the record shop.

It closed years ago.

If I'd never met Russell T Davies I would assume he's a straight man from some rural backwater who gets all his information on gay culture from 1990s sitcoms.

If I ever see him again I will strongly recommend that he watch Diamonds Are Forever from 1971. It's not one of the best Bond movies, but does feature Mr Wint and Mr Kidd, two badass hitmen who pose a genuine threat to Bond and just happen to be gay.

A movie from over 50 years ago relies far less on stereotyping than a present day show by our most celebrated gay screenwriter.

I found the Belfast Live report of the unveiling. It was 2 days ago. There is only 1 comment and it's a Father Ted quote.

I am so proud of us.😊

We’ve pointed out the flawed logic in this many, many times. I don’t know whether to be disappointed or impressed that it’s being trotted out again.

I’m not sure if that poster genuinely has a poor memory or if they think that others won’t remember, but the number of times they screenshot that graph only for posters to explain the wider issues surrounding it is quite baffling. A case of simply not wanting to hear logic, I suppose.

I think the idea of a window documenting LGB history is a nice one.

It's a shame this one is both ugly and includes the homophobic 't' slogan. It's turned it from being what should have been an affirming, positive, and celebratory window into a deliberately aggressive, political, and divisive thing. But there you go.

It's akin to 'Godwin's Law' - after a certain number of posts, it is inevitable that suggestionsplease will get out the wholly pointless and irrelevant graphs.

The Mayor actually says,
I'm immensely proud that today I unveiled our new LGBTQIA+ stained glass window in Belfast City Hall.
Isn’t he teeming it with tras?

It is yet another Progress Pride flag complete with the tired, awful, ubiquitous, purloined rainbow, and in this case, all though it has all pride components as symbols, gay men are predominantly represented by the window- given it is a man with a sodomy tee shirt pumping his fist that is the only human figure shown, and relatively large too. The figure is also rather aggressive looking in stance and wording.

Are gay men especially, and pride in general the most important element of a city to be celebrated and promoted in 2025?

Might Belfast people find it offensive for the civic hall to seemingly represent their city as Sodom in the stained glass window?
In my opinion ‘Sodomy’ was not a wise word to include, as it might not have the hoped for effect of being clearly and warmly understood by all Belfast people as being a witty re-appropriation.

In case people don’t realise, the city hall has other windows with different subjects and historic events depicted as well as this recent one:
www.belfastcity.gov.uk/Things-to-Do/City-Hall/Stained-glass-windows

This article suggests that planning sessions for the window were used for political point scoring against the man who did most for gay rights in Northern Ireland, and the organisers intentionally failed to consult him.
www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/fionola-meredith/window-tribute-to-lgbt-people-has-an-obvious-subject-and-is-staring-council-right-in-the-face/35600962.html

Nope sorry. I have reported a fact. FWR deals in facts, a poster has clearly told me so.

Now FWR has to answer - If gender self ID is so antithetical to women's rights, wellbeing and parity with men - why have the 8 of the top 10 countries in the world to be a women not slipped down these tables since introducing these policies and 'not knowing what a woman is'?

Why have they stayed at the top?

The answer is clear; the countries doing best in the world for women are also the countries doing the best for trans people; they foster the culture and environment in which women and minority groups in general thrive.

The countries that are working against LGBT populations will likewise see women's wellbeing and parity with men diminish. We will have a worked case in practice with the States over the next few years. But at least Trump knows what a woman is, right?

This article suggests that planning sessions for the window were used for political point scoring against the man who did most for gay rights in Northern Ireland, and the organisers intentionally failed to consult him.

Jeff Dudgeon is a great man, and far too modest about his own role. Unfortunately his politics make him inconvenient for the ruling SF-Alliance combo at City Hall.

I find SF difficult to take generally when they get on their moral high horse, but Alliance's long term track record is that they've promoted gay representatives in relatively recent years, and sold themselves as the party for the alphabet community, but during the time when Norn Iron's progressive party might have made a difference, their gay members were so deeply closeted as to be in Narnia.

So, even if they didn't currently embrace genderwoo, it still feels a bit like stolen valour.

@SionnachRuadh thanks for explaining further.

Looking at those windows I'd have thought a lot of them are pretty political and divisive. I mean the RUC had to be renamed because they were so divisive. So perhaps the window will be in good company.

Nothing will ever be completely inclusive or non-political. Women's rights aren't settled or controversial either, but I still think we should have a window.

I'm also curious about the word sodomy. It's not a word I use or hear very often but there was a church near me (some flavour of independent Presbyterian) that used to shove anti-gay literature through our letterboxes all the time which had loads of mentions of it. They didn't care about my children reading those (and some were very graphic), so I would struggle to take objections to it's usage by another group seriously really, when made by their spiritual cousins in NI.

Might Belfast people find it offensive for the civic hall to seemingly represent their city as Sodom in the stained glass window?

Firstly is does not represent Sodom. You'd have to be mad to think it does.

And secondly no, the people of Belfast don't seem to be finding it offensive. The only objections seem to be coming from the Twitter loons and a single DUP'er.

We've come a long way.😊

Yes, you said this on the last thread and it was all explained to you then.

The t-shirt depicted was a protest against the Save Ulster from Sodomy campaign @ScholesPanda. Save Ulster from Sodomy is still around in some churches, mostly Free Presbyterian ones.

Where is the T on the window? I can't see it.

😂 You're too funny.

There has never been a good FWR counter argument to this picture, and it seems like you've got nothing again.

It is funny you can’t remember the explanations, I agree.

Well it appears you can't either 🤔

Which tables and how are the compilers calculating this ranking?

Oh but I can - I’m just enjoying watching you repeat the same nonsense and posting the same wee bar chart while claiming you can’t recall the explanations that were provided for you previously.

Look up the Women, Peace and Security Index, or the Global Gender Gap Report (or indeed any major international study on Women's equality, rights and wellbeing that compiles an index) You will see a full breakdown of how they have approached this.

Take any respected one of your choosing. Then have a look at the top performing countries and then analyse which of them also have policies of gender self ID.

Mumsnet should be thrilled really, it is a binary variable after all 😁

Now FWR has to answer

Oh, mate.