Today it's Amnesty Internation on Woman's Hour to discuss the Supreme Court judgment

[nauticant]

With Anita Rani. I am not expecting much in the way of challenges.

The irony is, you're on here, at 10.15 replying to me while allegedly that you support women's rights, while speaking to me, a woman, like utter crp and simultaneously talking the pss about a young person wanting to take their life.

This is the same emotional manipulation script we constantly hear from transactivists: “give us what we want or we will kill ourselves”. Though strangely enough Stonewall counted the partner of a trans person telling a trans person they were being made suicidal by the trans persons behaviour as domestic abuse of the trans person. But consistency and logic are not their forte.

MassiveWordSalad has done a sterling job with that transcription, even if we are none the wiser about what he said. But I think the gist was 'we should all be safe all the time', as indeed we should. But we aren't, never have been and you'd think the Big Cheese at Amnesty International UK would know that.

Bloody car crash of an interview anyway.

It appears that no-one has taken the trouble to understand the purpose of the ruling, or to read it

It was the same with the Cass Report - after it was released there were large numbers of complaints about it that could easily be disproved by simply reading it. Rather worryingly though was the number of politicians who were also spouting these lies, including in Parliament.

Are you thinking about the Prof Louis Appleby report

This is the most unintentionally ironic post I think I’ve ever read on here 😂. I’m surprised you don’t have more self awareness of how anti women your posts come
across, what with your first class degree n all. As long your trans mates are ok sod the rest of us.

As it happens I got a first too, and post grad qualifications besides. Only I don’t usually raise them to patronise other posters. Because I’m not a twat.

Thank you for that, but no I don't think it was.

Perhaps it was to do with what was being taught in schools.

I thought the issue had been addressed a lot more unequivocally, possibly by the DfE, but maybe I'm misremembering.

It's baffling isn't it?

Is it a belief in no need to actually read anything, just download the RightThink from the right source?

Is it this thing of never look at facts or anything else written by a source declared unclean in case it infects you?

The man made a complete fool of himself. He is not the first one.

I think Wes Streeting slapped someone down on Twitter about this?

I'm sure I remember a statement given to be clear that the stats were wrong and should not be used.

One thing I noticed about this interview, (and which I think is a general, deliberate tactic to try and muddy the waters of the SC ruling etc) is to say that not allowing transwomen to use women’s services is discrimination under the EA2010, without clarifying which protected characteristic applies. Having protection based on the characteristic of being trans is not the same as having protection based on the protected characteristic of sex. Which is exactly why they are not allowed to use women’s service.
They just lump it all together in a vague ‘you can’t discriminate under the EA2010’ and hope no one notices.

There is also Dr Riittakerttu Kaltiala
the Finnish specialist in adolescent gender medicine.

She robustly refutes the ‘better a trans child than a dead child trope’. She was a speaker at a symposium in the U.K. last year if I have remembered correctly.

This article in The Tablet explains at some length why she refutes the trans suicide idea (that without affirmation and transition a child will kill themselves).It was the first I clicked on but there are all sorts of articles.
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/finland-youth-gender-medicine

On dead trans children, my question has always been, where are these children? And where are the grieving parents, presumably numbers of them there must be.

Where are the photographs and stories of these children, all over the media? Where are the distraught parents, agitating for this not to happen to anyone else's child? Given that trans ideology seems to be particularly prevalent among the middle classes, you would have thought there would be a lot of articulate, well-connected parents able to make effective representations about this.

You couldn't fit a cigarette paper between Gender Ideology and the behaviour of TRAs and that of incels.

It is the same deep misogyny and contempt for women with marginally different packaging.

Both believe women do not deserve rights, want those rights removed and to be free to use women as they see fit. Both send vile threats and abuse to women who disagree with their aims.

Death has to be presented as the only alternative to trans because it is the only way they can possibly justify the harms caused to the child by ‘transition’; lowered IQ, osteoporosis, menopause at 13, sterility, isolation from peers/family, life long medication, extreme body modification and all the risks in that, increased risk of cancers and heart disease, continued poor/worsening mental health, preventing sexuality, pain and harm from binders etc etc.

my children's half sibling, who was born a girl, now identifies as a trans man. She had contemplated killing herself. Living life as a trans person, from what I've seen, is hell

@jenfw do you not wonder (a) what in particular children in this situation were unhappy about in the first place and how did that transition into being unhappy in their bodies; and (b) whether failing to change sex, because nobody can as you know, was the answer to their problems?

I'm not trying to be goady or vile to you, your children's half sibling is obviously not having an easy time of it, but she is a small part of a much bigger picture that I fear is blinkered by personal experience. I'm genuinely interested in your answers to my questions.

How would you explain Kaitlyn Jenner's stance saying trans women should not be given access to women's sports? Or someone I know that is a trans woman, who does not believe in women only spaces being opened up to people born men? Saying all trans people have these values is akin to saying all men have the same views towards women as Andrew Tate.

You're the one who's equating TRAs with trans women...

I never said all trans people have these values, however, Gender Ideology does and the vocal TRAs and their allies use the same rhetoric and same behaviours that Incels do. Their goals are the same.

Trying to come across as ‘reasonable’ whilst still stealing women’s language.

Some men who identify as women and were fêted for it as now sad that women are pushing back, so are trying to position themselves as the ‘reasonable’ ones who should still be fêted.

These men would have us believe that they're genuinely pretending to be women. Not like those other men, those creeps and perverts, who are just pretending to pretend to be women.

My ex (my children's Dad) brought both his daughters from the age of five onwards. He didn't really dissuade anything feminine, but dolls, gendered toys / make up (or anything that would be associated with gender stereotypes) were never a feature in the household. My ex is very alternative, as is the mother of my ex's two daughters (she is not what broader / traditional society would consider feminine). My ex and the daughter in question's mum separated, which was very difficult and included dv.Once I came into the picture, the daughter in question was ten, and I lived with her for five years. She (now identifies as he) was always very shy and withdrawn and at times, was treated fairly harshly by my ex. Me and my ex then separated after having two children so there was more upheval. Looking back I always knew there was something there. It's not been easy for my ex and he has found it extremely difficult to navigate (his other daughter who is a few years younger also came out as gay). My ex stil can't bring himself to call his daughter a 'he', or even say the word 'trans'. The struggle is palpable when I have discussed it with him. His daughter (now going by he) was very poorly but is now doing better and is in a relationship with a woman. The broader point I'm probably making is that my ex's daughters had no control over how they were brought up (the same as everyone). It's clearly influenced them, but that part of their life / upbringing, or the impact it has had on them can never be eradicated. She (now he) is amazing with my children (who aren't aware of anything different or had anything explained to them yet) and was before they decided to start identifying as 'he'. Sorry, long post I know. I still think women'd spaces should be protected but I think the situation that I have been exposed to has allowed me to empathize with others, as I could not help thinking how I would attempt to navigate or cope of one of my children even expressed that they thought they might be trans.

You haven't provided a response though, just words of no substance. Stealng women's language? I am a women. Moreover, this is pathetic. I feel like I'm back on the school playground. I've hardly ever posted on Mumsnet in my life but my God, what an eye opener. It's not a nice place to be.

You were the one saying women here were like Andrew Tate, which is clearly a ridiculous attempt to DARVO.

I'm not interested. This thread is one of the most toxic things I've come across in a long time. Have a good day.