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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I stuck my head above the parapet

322 replies

RedCrochetedWigFace · 16/05/2025 07:44

So I work for a smallish company but we have a few different branches throughout the country. I think each branch has a least one trans woman. I've no idea if we've any transmen. They don't make as much of a drama and noise if we do.

There is a staff group who are generally well meaning but they've started kicking off about how awful the supreme court ruling is blah blah blah. They are mostly women. I tried respectfully pointing out that no-one has lost any rights and that it's actually protecting women's rights.

I said that I want any trans people to feel comfortable at work and if that's not the case then action absolutely needs to be taken but that the supreme court judgement shouldn't make a difference to that. Someone said what about the "ugly women who look like men" who were dragged out of women's toilets. I said that was an awful thing to call a woman and misogynist. I was accused of avoiding the question. They said that the ruling meant that women who don't look/present as women will also suffer and seemed to think that undermined the argument that no ones rights were being negatively impacted.

I just reiterated that anyone feeling unsafe at work needs support regardless of gender/perceived gender or any other factor. I asked what the group wanted to achieve. They said they want trans people to feel safe at work. I dont think I hid my exasperation.

I'm pretty sure I was respectful throughout. I tried to be.

Now I have a meeting with my manager and HR on Tuesday. I have spoken with ACAS. It's not a formal meeting so I'm not allowed to take anyone in with me.

FFS.

OP posts:
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MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/05/2025 20:01

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Can you quote one transphobic post on this thread?

AzureCritic · 18/05/2025 20:02

Stepfordian · 18/05/2025 20:01

Who put 50p in the dickhead?

Who rang 1996 for a joke that was shit and beaten out, even then?

murasaki · 18/05/2025 20:02

My feminism is intersectional, it just doesn't include men, however they identify themselves.

NotAtMyAge · 18/05/2025 20:02

Helleofabore · 18/05/2025 19:33

Want to post what was propaganda in that post ? It just seems you have nothing but ad hom comments at the moment.

Azure has nothing, full stop.It's so predictable to watch the male anger and entitlement in every post. No arguments that can't be demolished or indeed deleted as totally unacceptable. It's the last gasps of a dying ideology.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 18/05/2025 20:03

It's a while since we've seen a full blown tantrum on here 😂

NotAtMyAge · 18/05/2025 20:04

AzureCritic · 18/05/2025 19:38

Who gives a crap? Honestly lol

You obviously do. You really can't cope with being out-argued with ease by so many posters with genuine knowledge and expertise.

AzureCritic · 18/05/2025 20:05

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Haulage · 18/05/2025 20:05

MrsOvertonsWindow · 18/05/2025 20:03

It's a while since we've seen a full blown tantrum on here 😂

I’d forgotten how funny they were! 🍿

WithSilverBells · 18/05/2025 20:05

AzureCritic · 18/05/2025 19:28

Put her long rant into Chat GPT. Ask it to analyse and counter. The confirmation bias and willingness to eagerly gobble up propaganda is wild lol. Absolutely fascinating.

Absolutely fascinating description of how TRAs produce their batshit arguments

AzureCritic · 18/05/2025 20:06

NotAtMyAge · 18/05/2025 20:04

You obviously do. You really can't cope with being out-argued with ease by so many posters with genuine knowledge and expertise.

This is hilarious for so many reasons. Bless your cotton socks lol.

murasaki · 18/05/2025 20:07

AzureCritic · 18/05/2025 20:06

This is hilarious for so many reasons. Bless your cotton socks lol.

What are the reasons please?

AzureCritic · 18/05/2025 20:08

This reply has been deleted

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CassOle · 18/05/2025 20:09

MrsOvertonsWindow · 18/05/2025 20:03

It's a while since we've seen a full blown tantrum on here 😂

I think that Azure is my favourite poster on here currently. Their posts are a rather mesmerising gish gallop.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/05/2025 20:10

AzureCritic · 18/05/2025 19:59

The Venn diagram of racists, transphobes, Zionists, anti-immigrants and right wing evangelical christofascists is a circle.

Cut the crap. You're not feminists. How can you be feminists when your feminism is not intersectional?

You're transphobes.

Intersectional feminism is about including women who are structurally disadvantaged or may be discriminated against for other reasons than merely being female.

Poor women, disabled women, immigrant women, women of colour, incarcerated women, women from religious minorities, lesbians. Yes, even women with nonstandard gender identities.

You know who is at the intersection between "female" and "trans"?

Trans men.

Intersectional feminism includes trans men.

It doesn't include trans women because male and female don't intersect.

You are the one who isn't a feminist because feminism isn't supposed to centre male people.

And all those women who are oppressed in other ways, all the groups of women for whom the term "intersectional feminism" was invented have the most to lose from people like you trying to make feminism all about trans women.

Incarcerated women are the ones being locked up with male rapists.

Disabled women are the ones who are at risk of being unable to refuse intimate care from a man who identifies as a woman.

Women from religious minorities are the ones self excluding from women's single sex spaces because they're not single sex anymore.

Lesbians are the ones being told that their same sex attraction is transphobic and that they need to be more open to dating women with penises.

Immigrant women are the ones most at risk of missing out on vital healthcare information because they don't realise that they are a "person with a cervix".

Our feminism is intersectional.

Yours isn't feminism at all.

Myalternate · 18/05/2025 20:10

Odd isn’t it that seemingly such a ‘tiny number’ of women have managed to get the highest Court in the land to acknowledge that transwomen are men. We really do have super powers. 😂

AzureCritic · 18/05/2025 20:10

murasaki · 18/05/2025 20:02

My feminism is intersectional, it just doesn't include men, however they identify themselves.

Intersectional feminism includes men because it recognizes that gender inequality affects everyone, not just women. While feminism mainly fights for women's rights, intersectional feminism also looks at how different identities (like race, class, sexuality, and gender) overlap to shape people's experiences — including men.

For example:

Men of color may face racial stereotypes that intersect with gender expectations.

Gay or trans men can face discrimination that's different from straight, cisgender men.

Men in poverty may be harmed by systems that expect them to always be providers.

So, intersectional feminism aims to break down unfair systems that hurt people across all genders — making society better for everyone, including men.

You're no feminist lol

Haulage · 18/05/2025 20:11

MrsOvertonsWindow · 18/05/2025 12:31

Poor old Azure. Spends all this time frothing and insulting women on here only to be greeted with this chef's kiss of a post. 😂

I was going to reply that there was no chance Azure would do anything but ‘squirrels’ in response to that stellar post by @CakeBlanchett, but I got called to dinner and forgot. Now here we are 😁

AzureCritic · 18/05/2025 20:11

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/05/2025 20:10

Intersectional feminism is about including women who are structurally disadvantaged or may be discriminated against for other reasons than merely being female.

Poor women, disabled women, immigrant women, women of colour, incarcerated women, women from religious minorities, lesbians. Yes, even women with nonstandard gender identities.

You know who is at the intersection between "female" and "trans"?

Trans men.

Intersectional feminism includes trans men.

It doesn't include trans women because male and female don't intersect.

You are the one who isn't a feminist because feminism isn't supposed to centre male people.

And all those women who are oppressed in other ways, all the groups of women for whom the term "intersectional feminism" was invented have the most to lose from people like you trying to make feminism all about trans women.

Incarcerated women are the ones being locked up with male rapists.

Disabled women are the ones who are at risk of being unable to refuse intimate care from a man who identifies as a woman.

Women from religious minorities are the ones self excluding from women's single sex spaces because they're not single sex anymore.

Lesbians are the ones being told that their same sex attraction is transphobic and that they need to be more open to dating women with penises.

Immigrant women are the ones most at risk of missing out on vital healthcare information because they don't realise that they are a "person with a cervix".

Our feminism is intersectional.

Yours isn't feminism at all.

Intersectional feminism includes men because it recognizes that gender inequality affects everyone, not just women. While feminism mainly fights for women's rights, intersectional feminism also looks at how different identities (like race, class, sexuality, and gender) overlap to shape people's experiences — including men.
For example:

  • Men of color may face racial stereotypes that intersect with gender expectations.
  • Gay or trans men can face discrimination that's different from straight, cisgender men.
  • Men in poverty may be harmed by systems that expect them to always be providers.
So, intersectional feminism aims to break down unfair systems that hurt people across all genders — making society better for everyone, including men.

It's incredible how clueless you faux feminists are l

WithSilverBells · 18/05/2025 20:12

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

You are not laughing, Azure. We know you are not. You are furious at being thwarted by women

NotAtMyAge · 18/05/2025 20:13

AzureCritic · 18/05/2025 19:59

The Venn diagram of racists, transphobes, Zionists, anti-immigrants and right wing evangelical christofascists is a circle.

Cut the crap. You're not feminists. How can you be feminists when your feminism is not intersectional?

You're transphobes.

Feminism intersects with race, class, age and disability, all of which are experienced by women. However it does not intersect with maleness which is something experienced only by men.

As for your ridiculous imagery in your first paragraph it says far more about you than about the women on this board, most of whom are left-leaning, agnostic or atheist, and socially liberal. How sad that you have so little understanding of other people who don't fit your prejudices.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/05/2025 20:13

AzureCritic · 18/05/2025 20:10

Intersectional feminism includes men because it recognizes that gender inequality affects everyone, not just women. While feminism mainly fights for women's rights, intersectional feminism also looks at how different identities (like race, class, sexuality, and gender) overlap to shape people's experiences — including men.

For example:

Men of color may face racial stereotypes that intersect with gender expectations.

Gay or trans men can face discrimination that's different from straight, cisgender men.

Men in poverty may be harmed by systems that expect them to always be providers.

So, intersectional feminism aims to break down unfair systems that hurt people across all genders — making society better for everyone, including men.

You're no feminist lol

No, feminism is for and about women, silly.

Your misspelling of "colour" explains a lot.

murasaki · 18/05/2025 20:13

OK, I'll admit my feminism is not fully intersectional as it definitely excludes Azure, whatever their biological sex is.

NotAtMyAge · 18/05/2025 20:15

AzureCritic · 18/05/2025 20:06

This is hilarious for so many reasons. Bless your cotton socks lol.

If this is the only argument you have I rest my case. 😂😂 Run away and play somewhere else, pal. Here the grown-ups are talking.

CassOle · 18/05/2025 20:15

This erroneous beauty is my favourite one so far.

'I love it when transphobes profess to know better than AI because they read something from a nazi adjacent website on the Internet. Honest to god, I'm no fan of AI - but for this sole purpose it is absolutely incredible.

Imagine being so arrogant and entitled that you think you know better than literal friggin AI and then have the audacity to mock?

Fascinating lololol.'

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/05/2025 20:16

AzureCritic · 18/05/2025 20:11

Intersectional feminism includes men because it recognizes that gender inequality affects everyone, not just women. While feminism mainly fights for women's rights, intersectional feminism also looks at how different identities (like race, class, sexuality, and gender) overlap to shape people's experiences — including men.
For example:

  • Men of color may face racial stereotypes that intersect with gender expectations.
  • Gay or trans men can face discrimination that's different from straight, cisgender men.
  • Men in poverty may be harmed by systems that expect them to always be providers.
So, intersectional feminism aims to break down unfair systems that hurt people across all genders — making society better for everyone, including men.

It's incredible how clueless you faux feminists are l

You're from a country where feminism has failed, because your kind of fauxfeminism is the only kind.

That's why women in your country lack basic rights that they have pretty much everywhere else in the developed world and in half the developing world.

If feminists in your country were a bit more JK Rowling and a bit less Judith Butler, women might have the right to safe and legal abortions in every part of the country and basic stuff like, you know, paid maternity leave.

The only thing Americans have to teach the rest of the world about feminism is how not to do it.

Sit down.

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