I stuck my head above the parapet

[RedCrochetedWigFace]

So I work for a smallish company but we have a few different branches throughout the country. I think each branch has a least one trans woman. I've no idea if we've any transmen. They don't make as much of a drama and noise if we do.

There is a staff group who are generally well meaning but they've started kicking off about how awful the supreme court ruling is blah blah blah. They are mostly women. I tried respectfully pointing out that no-one has lost any rights and that it's actually protecting women's rights.

I said that I want any trans people to feel comfortable at work and if that's not the case then action absolutely needs to be taken but that the supreme court judgement shouldn't make a difference to that. Someone said what about the "ugly women who look like men" who were dragged out of women's toilets. I said that was an awful thing to call a woman and misogynist. I was accused of avoiding the question. They said that the ruling meant that women who don't look/present as women will also suffer and seemed to think that undermined the argument that no ones rights were being negatively impacted.

I just reiterated that anyone feeling unsafe at work needs support regardless of gender/perceived gender or any other factor. I asked what the group wanted to achieve. They said they want trans people to feel safe at work. I dont think I hid my exasperation.

I'm pretty sure I was respectful throughout. I tried to be.

Now I have a meeting with my manager and HR on Tuesday. I have spoken with ACAS. It's not a formal meeting so I'm not allowed to take anyone in with me.

FFS.

The swivel-eyed, spittle-flecked rage that women actually exist as a distinct group in law in the UK is a sight to behold.

Feminism is a movement by those born female that centres the needs and concerns of those born female. Those born male can create their own movement to centre their own needs and concerns, instead of expecting women to do it for them.

And Americans are the most mad about it.

Really, you'd think they'd have bigger things to worry about than the fact that trans women in the UK can't have literally everything they want.

It seems that the Supreme Court ruling is causing some consternation across the pond too.

We ask the same old questions of the transpeople. They must know what questions we're going to ask. Why haven't even one or two of them tried to formulate sensible answers to the usual questions?

My guess is that people like Azure can cope with Trump's executive orders because in less than 4 years a different president could undo them with a stroke of the pen.The thought that the highest court in the land could make a judgment with the impact of our recent one must be much more worrying.

“This pathetic attempt to try and shame people who challenge you transphobic bullies into silence is water off a ducks back.”

“Your victim complex is wearing as thin as that of Zionists.”

fuck. This is one grim post. The DARVO is just the beginning of the wrong on so many levels. I cannot believe this appeared on MN.

By the way, @RedCrochetedWigFace , I don't think you're going to run into swivel-eyed loons like the Azure one. I feel we've drifted off the original theme of the thread which was about supporting you, and i hope it goes well for you.

The abuse just keeps on coming, doesn’t it?

I came on to the thread to see how the OP was getting on. Targetting a thread where the OP was asking for support with the sort of posts that end up getting deleted is just about what you'd expect, isn't it.

OP - hope it goes OK for you next week.

The rage from men being denied acces to undressed women and girls is quite something isn't it? A bit worrying that so many lack the emotional control to manage their feelings better ... plus ca change.

Mmmm. Is that someone with Egalitarian aspirations? Feminism has never been focused on improving the lives of male people, it seems you have changed the definition to suit yourself there.

A good reminder. Sorry OP for getting drawn into arguing with a rage filled poster.

Wishing you all the best for Tuesday

Tell me one thing you think I believe that falls into any of those categories.

I hope the meeting on Tuesday goes well, too, OP, & . Hold your nerve, as you can see from the spectacle put on here, there is no substance behind all the aggro and racket, it’s just noise and distraction.

@RedCrochetedWigFace Good luck for next week. I wish you all the best.

That is hilarious on so many different levels.

When it comes to political views AI is rather prone to GI / GO but hey, it is like someone thinks AI uni assignments are going to score very highly when submitted.

I mean, I am still expecting a coherent definition of sex since the one already in precedent judgement has been deigned not suitable by Azure. But I think anything from them at this time will either be from AI or will be a version of Turtles all the way down. Or … it could well be both!

Agreed. Without generalising too much, it's commonly older folk and gen Alpha who think AI is intelligent like a person, and not a more complex autocomplete.
They get confused by the convincing language of LLMs, and think that convincing language actually is intelligence.

Hence the slightly bizarre and incompetent attempts at mimicking such language.

It's the utter lack of intellectual curiosity we were discussing on another thread.

OP: Sorry you appear to be being singled out for attention. Please do not fear: you have done nothing wrong and as you've said here, want the best for everyone in the workplace. It's good that you've spoken to ACAS and they will have a record of this on their database, which is useful in itself. Their website has information for clarification of any points about investigatory procedures, informal or formal, should you need to check anything.

For individual assistance and advice you can contact the Equality & Advisory Support Service (EASS), assuming you are in England, Scotland or Wales.

The Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) does not itself handle individual complaints but they are dealt with by the EASS:
www.equalityadvisoryservice.com

"Informal Resolution
We are able to support an individual to resolve their issue using alternative informal dispute resolution, as opposed to issuing a claim in the county court or the employment tribunal; needless to say, we recognise situations where issuing a claim may well be the only option. In some instances we may write to a service provider on behalf of a client in order to initiate a resolution.
It is important to remember that we will work with you to decide the best course of action for you to take in resolving your issue. We will support you to achieving the best possible outcome.
The EASS helpline does not provide legal advice – for more information on this please refer to our Legal Advice policy."

"CONTACT OUR ADVICE LINE:0808 800 0082

OPENING HOURS:Monday - Friday: 9am - 7pm
Saturday: 10am - 2pm"

I think it could be a mantrum actually.

Trantrum.

👏 👏

Exactly - I came to check on any updates and hope OP is feeling more confident - with right and FWR on her side.

And there are all these derailing posts.

Seriously, I know many threads can start of in one direction, and then develop into something else, but on a thread where someone is asking for help, there is no need to take the opportunity for a tangent.

If you think you have a general or specific point, nothing to stop you strting your own thread.

How is this different from whataboutery

So you’re saying transwomen are men then? If you’re saying we’re not feminists because we dint include men, and we don’t include transwomen, ergo you’re claiming TW are men. Totally agree.