HoC debated on "Allow transgender people to self-identify their legal gender" - Monday 19 May 2025 at 4:30pm

[IwantToRetire]

For some reasons the House of Commons Petitions Committee have not listed this on the official web site of forthcoming Westminister Hall debates.

But seem to think a short tweet is enough notice! https://x.com/HoCpetitions/status/1922663793403855330

Again haven't listed petition url but can be found on https://petition.parliament.uk

And should be available to watch via https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Guide

Just in case anyone wants to lobby their MP to attend.

Tracy Gilbert, MP Edinburgh North & Leith is part of Labour Women's Declaration

Rosie had something better to do to help women, but caught up after and is not impressed.

Rosie Duffield MP
https://x.com/RosieDuffield1/status/1924519837922996258

You think you've heard everything batshit about self-id/sex/gender? Then listen back to the debate in Westminster Hall that's happening now. Some MPs are suggesting that nobody should have to list their biological sex on passports/driving licences or birth certificates.../1

Because there is "no magical way of ascertaining someone's biological sex". Another saying she finds the Government's "need for that data is confusing and incomprehensible and poses a 'danger' and a 'breach of privacy'. These are elected legislators, speaking in Parliament.../2

Ian Liles OBE
I pity you having to listen to such buffoonery.

Rosie Duffield MP

Watching in my office having just held a meeting on birth trauma - the kind that happens to those pesky biological women who give birth!

That is so depressing. I’m getting on to my MP toot sweet.

Who is the birth mother? Layla Moran or her partner, Rosy? Layla is described as taking “parental leave”: www.libdemvoice.org/congratulations-to-layla-and-rosy-on-the-birth-of-their-baby-77500.html

So what happens now?

That’s Roz Savage MP

Hansard has starting putting up the transcript. Not complete at this point.
https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2025-05-19/debates/2801067E-044C-4628-A022-FC405ABBA9DA/GenderSelf-Identification

So what happens now?

I dont trust Labour to renege on them saying they wont bring in self id in the near future.

But I think in the immediate future the EHRC will continue to be under attack, and that there will be mass responses to the consultation re future guidelines post Supremem Court ruling.

If it if anything like the consultation re self id some years ago now, the majority of responses will be pro trans rights. These were only disregarded as they seemed to much like copy and paste responses and so were disregarded. And although fewer from those supporting women's sex based rights, they were taken as reflecting attitudes.

(Sorry this is just to illustrates what the process could be, not trying to say this is about self id. The consultation that should have started today is on how to implement the Supreme Court ruling, ie not just toilets but every thing else.)

I think there will be high level briefings about how trans people are going to be discriminated against, so that even obvious guidelines re sex based rights will be portrayed as anti trans.

ie this consultation will be used to water down as much as possible the logical outcomes of the Supremem Court ruling.

And to try and make out that Baroness Falkner (Chair of EHRC) is not fit to carry out the consultation because she is biased (in favour of sex based rights). Prior to the Court ruling she had already recommended that the GRA be disapplied to the EA which is more radical than the Supreme Court ruling.

Is Rosy male or female?

Hilarious line.

Dr Roz Savage

I will end this speech with a simple reflection. There are, as far as I am aware, no trans MPs in this Chamber, but we all have trans constituents, and we all have the capacity to imagine. Imagine waking up tomorrow exactly as you are—same body, same mind—but the world is treating you as somebody that you are not. They call you by the wrong name. They dismiss what you say because they do not see beyond the gender issue. That is the daily experience of many trans people in the UK.

If only Jamie Wallis was still an MP he could have shared his knowledge of the difficulties of being trans with everyone in the debate. He spoke on this topic before when he was an MP. Wonder what he is up to nowadays... oh there is an entire thread about him right NOW. Seems he is in court again, but that never happens.

Labour leadership do not care about gender stuff. It is not that they love reality, it is just they see no benefit in pushing the gender line when most of the public disagree and they are terrified of giving openings to Farage. Plus some of them definitely know women exist like the Lord High Chancellor.

Falkner is still head of the EHRC I don't think they are going to water down what they will say despite all the nonsense they will receive. The ruling is clear. Biology exists. Labour are not going to pass a bill to change anything.

The TAs main hope is the conversion therapy bill, but I don't think it will fix gender nonsense into law. If it ever happens.

I think Rosy must be a pan as Layla is pansexual. Will the baby be a saucepan or a frying pan?

Well, all the best to them on the birth of their sprog. I hope it went well for the mother.

Labour leadership do not care about gender stuff. It is not that they love reality, it is just they see no benefit in pushing the gender line when most of the public disagree and they are terrified of giving openings to Farage. Plus some of them definitely know women exist like the Lord High Chancellor.

Well as I bothered to quote what the Labour representative had said I think you are wrong.

And the overall impact of high profile trans campaigns means that the potential improvement on sex based rights will be whittled down.

And most worrying Lady Falkner will be gone in a few months.

And although many in the debate today wanted clear guidelines as sooon as possible they also want the consultation period extended.

No doubt to ensure that as many as possible pro trans groups are consulted.

With no doubt on one women's sex based rights group being consulted.

With (no) apologies to Dr Roz Savage (MP) for tweaking her speech ...

Imagine waking up tomorrow exactly as you are—same body, same mind—but the world is treating you as somebody that you are not. They call you by the wrong name (cis woman instead of woman). They dismiss what you say when you say that the winner of the woman of the year award is male, or the person who beat your sporty daughter in the final was a boy, or the person in the bed next to your mum in the hospital is exposing his penis because they do not see beyond the gender issue. That is the daily experience of many trans people women in the UK. If you complain you are called a bigot.

Trans people face exclusion from sports at various levels.

Untrue, no matter how often they repeat this baseless claim.

Trans-identifying men have never been banned from any sport. In some cases they have been banned from women’s sports, and I hope this will continue until all women’s sports are single-sex again.

Trans-identifying men have always had, and will continue to have, the right to compete against other men. If they refuse to, that is their choice.

Well said!

I imagine LM would prefer “birthing parent” although maybe she will have more respect for motherhood now, one can but hope.

I suspect nothing.

The debate wasn't even on the radar of the press. It was a non event where people with little sense drivelled on about the usual guff and were rebuked by their less easily influenced colleagues who I suspect as well as having a better grasp of reality also can see where the whole debate is heading.

The SC ruling has been a gift to Labour because as far as I can see no one with any heft in the party is interested because they either thought it was nonsense all along or they now realise it's going to lose them even more votes than it has already.

I can't see Labour risking a further fall in popularity by going against public opinion and pandering to the wailing of a tiny minority of trans identified men and their loony supporters.

This. It’s a ridiculous case of weaving a tangled web that I have zero patience with.

I can't see Labour risking a further fall in popularity by going against public opinion and pandering to the wailing of a tiny minority of trans identified men and their loony supporters.

Did you listen to the debate or read what Labour said.

They are going to make it easier to transition, they have said (and we know how long they maintain any promise) that they wont bring is self id.

And just because you or others didn't watch it doesn't mean it isn't important.

In terms of who makes the law, ie MPs it should that pro Trans rights people are motivated, whereas those supposedly in favour of women's sex based rights aren't.

And this will filter through to Labour. They are the majority party and if this was one way of placating Labour MPs I am sure they would do it.

Sad to say I really dont think the great british public would rise up as one in they sneaked through self id, to the extent that people publicly opposed cutting the winter fuel allowance.

Complacency is an open door to well organised lobby groups.

The most important thing to rebuff this is to remember that 3/4 trans people are non binary plus trans women. Unisex spaces are required for the majority of trans people. And repeat… eventually it might get traction because everyone is bored with the bleating and thirds spaces are the obvious solution… as long as you ignore the hidden agenda

"Hadn't realised that whatever final guidelines post court ruling have to be agreed in Parliament??"

Well, it's a bit strange. It's more that they're not disagreed with - if that makes sense?

The power to issue guidance comes from the earlier Equality Act 2006. Section 14 says that where the EHRC wants to issue guidance then it must first send a draft to the Secretary of State (who I believe is currently Bridget Phillipson).

If she agrees with it then she will put it before Parliament for 40 days. If, during that time, a motion is passed that disapproves of the guidance then the EHRC have to start again, otherwise it is automatically passed.

So, basically, an MP will have to win a vote within 40 days saying that Parliament disapproves of the guidance or it automatically comes into force.

@IwantToRetire
I read what Labour said.

I agree, complacency is an open door to this nonsense but I still think unless there are very big changes at the top of Labour they won't touch this with a bargepole, especially as their popularity is already on shaky ground with many of the electorate.

The tras at the debate can say what they want. If they don't have the support within the seniors of their own party it isn't going to happen. I'm sure they'll try but I don't think keir starmer will go for it because he knows a) it's a vote loser and b) there are lots of people looking out for Labour on this issue and ready to get vocal with their complaints. KS isn't stupid.

Of course KS could be removed in favour of a TRA less measured leader then all bets are off but I think at that point Labour will have much bigger things to worry about than trans identified men.

Why hyperbolic tosh.

Who is going around calling trans people the wrong name and ignoring anything they say? Why is this being conflated with correctly recognising their sex? It's just made up bollocks. No, that minimises it. It's lies. Actual dirty lies.

Not to mention how transphobic it is of her to declare that there are no trans people in the chamber - how can she tell? 🙄

The people who suffer every day from their words being ignored are women.

@IwantToRetire I'm not dismissing your fears btw. I can see exactly where you're coming from.

I just think (hope) at the moment KSs Labour can't possibly be stupid enough to risk their first time in power for donkeys years over selfID/tra bollocks.

Mind you, you never know with Labour as they do have form for shooting themselves in the foot 🙄