HoC debated on "Allow transgender people to self-identify their legal gender" - Monday 19 May 2025 at 4:30pm

[IwantToRetire]

For some reasons the House of Commons Petitions Committee have not listed this on the official web site of forthcoming Westminister Hall debates.

But seem to think a short tweet is enough notice! https://x.com/HoCpetitions/status/1922663793403855330

Again haven't listed petition url but can be found on https://petition.parliament.uk

And should be available to watch via https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Guide

Just in case anyone wants to lobby their MP to attend.

There have been a few different Westminster hall debates on gender related issues triggered by petitions over recent years. Links here. These were all discussed in Mumsnet at the time.

One interesting aspect of the debates is who turns up. In debates in 2022//2023 there is fierce argument between the reality based and TA positions.

It was very noticeable in March 2025 virtually NO-ONE from the TA side turned up. The TA position is getting weaker inside Parliament. Even hardcore supporters are not as willing to get involved. This is going to have an impact going forward.

Westminster Hall debates
Legal Recognition of Non-binary Gender Identities
Volume 715: debated on Monday 23 May 2022
https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2022-05-23/debates/040FB4A1-8C3F-4F03-BB10-29FD4A6E24FE/LegalRecognitionOfNon-BinaryGenderIdentities

Debate: Transgender Conversion Therapy - 13th Jun 2022
https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2022-06-13/debates/066BEE43-BF73-4FC2-B740-B789C37232F3/TransgenderConversionTherapy

Debate: Legislative Definition of Sex
Petitions over altering the category of ‘sex’ to mean ‘biological sex’ in the Equality Act 2010
Volume 734: debated on Monday 12 June 2023
https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2023-06-12/debates/F74BD8CC-4807-46F4-AA51-5402B7CFE8F9/LegislativeDefinitionOfSex

Gender Critical Beliefs: Equality Act 2010
Volume 763: debated on Tuesday 11 March 2025
https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2025-03-11/debates/0DC93310-7660-4E07-8FE6-5A4DB4422104/GenderCriticalBeliefsEqualityAct2010

I had a very neutral email back from my liberal democrat MP. I would expect that within the party there are a lot of differing views on this issue. The email that I got talked about "women and trans people". Not a single mention of trans women. I got the impression she's a closet TERF.

I wonder if the soul see-er will have anything to contribute 🤓

Thanks for this, really useful to have these collated.

We believe the government should change legislation to make it easier for trans people of all ages to change their legal gender without an official diagnosis of gender dysphoria.

I note the 'trans people of all ages'. Such determination to corrupt our children. Keep the fuck away from our children.

One interesting aspect of the debates is who turns up

This.

Labour will be putting out the message not to attend I'm sure. There will be Labour MPs who do attend but it's likely to be those who are already head firmly above the parapet.

Id be surprised by the presence of any ministers.

The LDs have been somewhat keen to keep a lid on this, but they keep having bonkers comments slip out from their more crazy members - they didn't want to go near the subject of sex in the Lords the other day.

The SNP have already had their own meltdown over it.

Kemi will no doubt be out to play though.

Well they can't say they haven't been given any chance to put they're side of things, if they don't get anywhere with all these debates will they finally quit their whining do you think? 😒

They may feel it's more achievable post SC decision because the scope of what a GRC changes is smaller. If it doesn't give you the legal right to be treated as a woman in all things there are fewer practical reasons to object to self id and it becomes more about who gets to define who.

I absolutely and utterly reject cross sex identity BTW because I do not believe anyone has the right to redefine me as a woman into a member of a mixed sex group based on personality traits I am assumed to have. But unfortunately this point, being as it is a point about women's inner life and agency rather than the wants and social anger of men, tends to woosh over trans-addled activists' and politicians' heads. (Note to monitors: trans addled does not mean trans people are addled, it means TRA's thinking on trans issues is addled)

@FlirtsWithRhinos I agree with your assessment. I don't understand the whole "dignity of dying in your preferred gender" but if that is important to them and doing so doesn't in any way infringe on women's rights then I don't have an objection to it. I suspect that for the vast majority this isn't the main motivator and even were it made into a self-ID system for GRCs (with a cost to defray the administrative aspect) then few would take it up once it was clear it afforded you no access to women's spaces or preferential treatment over and above someone who doesn't have a GRC.

I suppose being able to falsify your sex on your death certificate might have implications for organ donation. Although surely tests for compatibility would ensure that wasn't much of a problem?

Statistics on mortality? Too few to affect anything except mortality rates for tp and if they're prone to certain diseases, conditions or other bad outcomes (suicide or murder).

Genealogists will be given a workout, as will future historians and archaeologists.

Layla Moran is on maternity leave.

I agree.

But they want to debate it anyway?

It's not the government debating it it's the petitions committee. The government will send someone along to respond but this is only the petitions committee and all it does is feedback how people feel about topics. How workable something is. This is going nowhere.

Thankyou for clarifying.

Biology has caught up with her then. I hope birth and early years child rearing gives her a better understanding of some of the challenges women face (although it doesn’t seem to have helped Stella Creasey).

I wonder whether her baby will be assigned non-binary until it * makes its own mind up about its gender

*It is traditionally totally acceptable to refer to a baby of unknown sex as 'it', that being the neuter third-person personal pronoun in English.

On a side note, it was at one time usual to refer to a child of unknown sex as 'she'.

The ‘trans community’ is continuously a hair’s breadth away from dissolution. It’s held together by a belief that they share a common enemy, but the interests of those within it can conflict.

The term ‘legal gender’ is preferred as it includes the ‘non binary’ crew and the ‘any word followed by ‘gender’ crew’. These lot want the sex category to be replaced with gender. Many trans people want their gender identity to be conflated with sex and to be categorised as being the opposite sex, so they do not want their gender identity sex category to be replaced by a gender category that isn’t binary.

The vast majority of people are getting very much closer to being ‘over it’. Trans identities are not a thing in primary and early secondary schools now. The big hoo-ha about the SC ruling will fade once organisations get the memo about what the law says. People with stable trans identities will find work arounds with these changes. Those who ask for bat shit accommodations will be seen as fringe.

I expect there are more open letters and petitions to come, but I don’t see them achieving much beyond gaining some attention.

Which pan made her pregnant?

As said at the start of the thread the petition was started long before the Supreme Court hearing.

And the idea that the trans community will just silently go away is of course laughable.

So at the moment the importance of this Petition debate will be to see which if any MPs bother to go along and support it, and if any who are GC supportive turn up.

If they dont it will be like the briefing last week, also already posted in this thread, where it appears the only public support is for trans people who say the Supreme Court has discriminated against them.

All of which becomes a matter of public record.

No amount of posts on FWR will in any match official records that show only pro trans statement are being made at meetings in the HoC.

If we’re taking bets one or more of the Greens will speak, because they’re trying to pick up disgruntled Labour voters.

Hoping people will update the thread, not able to follow live.

Is anyone watching / listening?

I tuned in just as someone talked about spousal refusal. (Not sure what phrase they used.)

Is that one of the demands of the petition?

At the moment the Chair hasn't been able to complete introducing the petition's aims as everyone is jumping up to virtue signal their support for trans people and how the Supreme Court has made their lives worse that ever.

I don't know who is speaking now. Female 'cis woman'. Summary - trans people's voices derserve to be heard. Medical diagnosis is very expensive.

I may stop listening.

I just think it is going to be 100% trans people are the most discriminated against in the world.

It is cruel to ask them to go through an invasive medical process. They should just be able to self identify.

Wonder how they propose this happens. You just send for a certificate. Print if off from the internet.