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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JK Rowlings latest tweet. Just wow!

1000 replies

Imnobody4 · 03/05/2025 20:36

I've copied it in full.
https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1918747065460420745?t=bPXQ2pY9VAwPPqFR26_vvw&s=19

In light of recent open letters from academia and the arts criticising the UK's Supreme Court ruling on sex-based rights, it's possibly worth remembering that nobody sane believes, or has ever believed, that humans can change sex, or that binary sex isn't a material fact. These letters do nothing but remind us of what we know only too well: that pretending to believe these things has become an elitist badge of virtue.

I often wonder whether the signatories of such letters have to quieten their consciences before publicly boosting a movement intent on removing women's and girls' rights, which bullies gay people who admit openly they don't want opposite sex partners, and campaigns for the continued sterilisation of vulnerable and troubled kids. Do they feel any qualms at all while chanting the foundational lie of their religion: Trans Women are Women, Trans Men are Men?

I have no idea. All I know for sure is that it's a complete waste of time telling a gender activist that their favourite slogan is self-contradictory nonsense, because the lie is the whole point. They're not repeating it because it's true - they know full well it's not true - but because they believe they can make it true, sort of, if they force everyone else to agree. The foundational lie functions as both catechism and crucifix: the set form of words that obviates the tedious necessity of coming up with your own explanation of why you're one of the Godly, and an exorcist's weapon which will defeat demonic facts and reason, and promote the advance of righteous pseudoscience and sophistry.

Some argue that signatories of these sorts of letters are motivated by fear: fear for their careers, of course, but also fear of their co-religionists, who include angry, narcissistic men who threaten and sometimes enact violence on non-believers; back-stabbing colleagues ever ready to report wrongthink; the online shamers and doxxers and rape threateners, and, of course, the influential zealots in the upper echelons of liberal professions (though we can quibble whether they're actually liberal at all, given the draconian authoritarianism that seems to have engulfed so many). Gender ideology could give medieval Catholicism a run for its money when it comes to punishing heretics, so isn't it common sense to keep your head down and recite your Hail Mulvaneys?

But before we start feeling too sorry for any cowed and fearful TWAWites who're TERFy on the sly, let's not forget what a high proportion of them have willingly snatched up pitchforks and torches to join the inquisitional purges. Call me lacking in proper womanly sympathy, but I find the harm they've enabled and in some cases directly championed or funded - the hounding and shaming of vulnerable women, the forced loss of livelihoods, the unregulated medical experiment on minors - tends to dry up my tears at source.

History is littered with the debris of irrational and harmful belief systems that once seemed unassailable. As Orwell said, 'Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them.' Gender ideology may have embedded itself deeply into our institutions, where it's been imposed, top-down, on the supposedly unenlightened, but it is not invulnerable.

Court losses are starting to stack up. The condescension, overreach, entitlement and aggression of gender activists is eroding public support daily. Women are fighting back and winning significant victories. Sporting bodies have miraculously awoken from their slumber and remembered that males tend to be larger, stronger and faster than females. Parts of the medical establishment are questioning cutting healthy breasts off teenaged girls is really the best way to fix their mental health problems.

One seemingly harmless little white lie - Trans Women are Women, Trans Men are Men - uttered in most cases without any real thought at all, and a few short years later, people who think of themselves as supremely virtuous are typing 'yes, rapists' pronouns are absolutely the hill I'll die on,' rubbing shoulders with those who call for women to be hanged and decapitated for wanting all-female rape crisis centres, and furiously denying clear and mounting evidence of the greatest medical scandal in a century.

I wonder if they ever ask themselves how they got here, and I wonder whether any of them will ever feel shame.

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1918747065460420745?s=19&t=bPXQ2pY9VAwPPqFR26_vvw

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36
BackToLurk · 04/05/2025 07:58

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 07:54

I honestly don't feel capable of giving this lesson. Like I said, it might be more useful to ask people around you how men and women live differently. Perhaps society is quite different where you are compared to where I'm from, so you're best off asking within your own culture and community.

This suggests you think ‘transness’ is culturally specific, which in turn suggests that it’s the performance of stereotypes.

Everlore · 04/05/2025 07:58

I just wanted to address the subject of third spaces, which I've seen come up on this thread and others on this topic.
I am a disabled woman. When I am out and need to use the toilet I use the disabled facilities. In the vast majority of cases, these are single occupant unisex toilet cubicles, separate from the single sex facilities.
At no point have I felt that it othered me as a disabled person to have to use the disabled toilet as oppose to having all toilet cubicles in regular women's facilities made accessibble to me. For this reason I am unsure why trans people seem so opposed to using a neutral facility available to all who feel uncomfortable using the toilets provided with their sex, unless, of course, access to women's spaces at all costs is their main goal and the oft repeated mantra "we just want to be able to pee in peace and safety" is just a convenient smokescreen for their real intentions.

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 07:58

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 07:57

You mean, these are arbitrary and context-dependent social conventions? Stereotypes, in other words.

So we are back to Miss Piggy in her lovely frock.

Mis piggy in her frock? Is that how see trans women?

StormyPotatoes · 04/05/2025 07:59

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 07:54

I honestly don't feel capable of giving this lesson. Like I said, it might be more useful to ask people around you how men and women live differently. Perhaps society is quite different where you are compared to where I'm from, so you're best off asking within your own culture and community.

Are we really back to the ‘educate yourself’ manta?

I’m clearly not the only one here who is confused by this and I’m sure who would give me a different answer to be honest. If I recall, even the GRC didn’t give a clear definitely other than using a female name on a household bill. Who should be asking for clarity on this if even the law can’t answer? My friends and family aren’t going to come up with anything different.

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 07:59

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 07:55

Yes, but delusions are not only part of psychosis. Lots of people live with all sorts of delusions. And many if not most of them are fully functioning, have jobs, families, etc.

Schizophrenics can live and function well, if their condition is well managed. But delusions don't necessarily involve mental illness. They can be part of various disorders, but aren't necessarily a disorder in themself.

I just found it a surpeising assertion that delusion would preclude living and functioning in society.

That's before we even get to whether people who believe they are trans are deluded or not. My answer to that would be: some certainly are.

Delusions are a symptom of serious mental illness. A PP said that trans people are delusional. Which means they are under a permanent delusion and therefore permanently and seriously unwell. I don't see how someone who lives in permanent delusion can be functional. The answer, of course, is that just being trans is not equivalent to being delusional.

BreatheAndFocus · 04/05/2025 08:00

ThatCyanCat · 04/05/2025 07:46

This is a huge and gross misrepresentation of what de Beauvoir said with this line (which you have taken entirely out of context), which was that biological females are forced into a performative gender role that many find oppressive and at odds with themselves but is forced on them because they are biologically female.

I realise that once a person says men can be women, they have outed themselves as someone who will lie about absolutely anything but the sheer shamelessness never ceases to amaze.

Indeed, but still people keep repeating that line without understanding. I rather like JCJ’s response to this 😀:

JK Rowlings latest tweet. Just wow!
ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 08:00

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 07:58

Mis piggy in her frock? Is that how see trans women?

Dont be silly. Miss Piggy is a stuffed handpuppet. Not a human being.

Helleofabore · 04/05/2025 08:00

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 07:54

I honestly don't feel capable of giving this lesson. Like I said, it might be more useful to ask people around you how men and women live differently. Perhaps society is quite different where you are compared to where I'm from, so you're best off asking within your own culture and community.

You are here telling women your opinion about them allowing some male people into their spaces.

Yet, you don't seem to have the depth of understanding to explain the concept you are supporting. Does that give you pause at all? Or is it more of a case that because you feel that it is a righteous cause, you think that other people have done all the thinking around it and they must be correct so you will repeat their views?

Datun · 04/05/2025 08:01

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 07:58

Right. You don’t understand what being trans is. It doesn’t make sense to you. You don’t believe it is real. As you say, you’re still waiting for that “consistent and logical definition”.

that is what is at the heart of this. If that’s your attitude to trans people it’s no wonder you take the policy positions you do.

Oh good Lord.

no wonder we're in such a mess, if you think policies should be based on things that are defined as inconsistent and illogical

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 08:01

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 07:59

Delusions are a symptom of serious mental illness. A PP said that trans people are delusional. Which means they are under a permanent delusion and therefore permanently and seriously unwell. I don't see how someone who lives in permanent delusion can be functional. The answer, of course, is that just being trans is not equivalent to being delusional.

There's no 'of course' about it, though. You've made a sweeping assertion based on fuck all reasoning or evidence.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/05/2025 08:01

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 07:56

As I just said to another poster, I don't feel qualified to give this lesson. If you want insights, you should ask people what's the norm for your own culture and community.

You’re not going to answer because you know you can’t, despite the slightly sneery posts to other women that it’s all so simple to understand what living as a woman is. It is simple, but not in the way you’re attempting to claim. I rest my case.

Igneococcus · 04/05/2025 08:01

Perhaps society is quite different where you are compared to where I'm from, so you're best off asking within your own culture and community.

Where I grew up that would have been "Küche, Kinder, Kirche" (although even back in the 70s that was quite outmoded) but I bet transwomen would like that as little as my mother, my aunts, my sister and I did.

SpidersAreShitheads · 04/05/2025 08:01

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 07:51

@SpidersAreShitheads So the question again, if we keep all men out because a small minority are dangerous, shouldn’t the same logic apply to trans women? Especially as we’ve already identified that up to 95% of them retain their penis and male physique….

I don't think that intact TW should be allowed in female spaces, only ones who've had the full transition and are permanently on hormone therapy. But since most of them are apparently intact, then it should be third spaces. It should also be third spaces just because many women don't want to share with non-bio women, whether transitioned or not.

Agreed. Third spaces are the way forward for TW (although many won’t thank you for saying that as access to single sex female spaces is the only acceptable solution apparently).

But that’s different from what you seemed to be saying in your earlier comments.

I’m not saying that to be arsey. Just that most of us have followed a similar trajectory to you - and as we read more of the facts and became more educated on the subject - eg/that the vast majority of TW retain their penis - we slowly came to the realisation that women deserve spaces away from trans women. That being kind to TW wasn’t actually being kind to women.

Contrary to opinion, we don’t hate trans women nor wish them harm. But no one else is standing up for our rights so we’ve learned to dig our heels in to protect each other.

You sound really well-meaning and kind. There are some brilliant threads on this board with intelligent, informed posts from women who have a lot of knowledge on this subject. They’re well worth a read so you can make up your mind either way based on objective facts.

DefineHappy · 04/05/2025 08:02

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 07:58

Right. You don’t understand what being trans is. It doesn’t make sense to you. You don’t believe it is real. As you say, you’re still waiting for that “consistent and logical definition”.

that is what is at the heart of this. If that’s your attitude to trans people it’s no wonder you take the policy positions you do.

How can you say that you know what being trans is if you can’t give a consistent and logical definition? If you believe in it and think it is real, then provide us the definition so we can consider it properly!

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 08:03

As you say, you’re still waiting for that “consistent and logical definition”.

Mea Culpa.

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 08:03

ThatCyanCat · 04/05/2025 07:55

We have been suggesting third spaces for, er, quite a while. You see yourself how much appetite there is in the trans campaign for it and how much call for them has been made. And how much campaigning for men to be welcoming of TW in their spaces.

They do not want safe male spaces or third spaces. It must be the women's spaces only.

Not wanting third spaces is too extreme a position. Everyone's feeling matter, not just trans people's, and if women aren't comfortable with even fully transitioned TW using female loos, then TW should accept that there is no perfect solution and that third spaces are the most reasonable adjustment.

Helleofabore · 04/05/2025 08:04

Everlore · 04/05/2025 07:58

I just wanted to address the subject of third spaces, which I've seen come up on this thread and others on this topic.
I am a disabled woman. When I am out and need to use the toilet I use the disabled facilities. In the vast majority of cases, these are single occupant unisex toilet cubicles, separate from the single sex facilities.
At no point have I felt that it othered me as a disabled person to have to use the disabled toilet as oppose to having all toilet cubicles in regular women's facilities made accessibble to me. For this reason I am unsure why trans people seem so opposed to using a neutral facility available to all who feel uncomfortable using the toilets provided with their sex, unless, of course, access to women's spaces at all costs is their main goal and the oft repeated mantra "we just want to be able to pee in peace and safety" is just a convenient smokescreen for their real intentions.

Thank you. That is a valuable insight. I suspect you are correct and that it is obfuscation for their real intentions. Which is that they demand to be treated as if they are what they belief they are.

FinallyPeakedNow · 04/05/2025 08:05

My last post looks very weird in my browser (format not content, obvs)

On the subject of 'living as a woman' @StuckUpPrincess might be thinking about this a bit now, hopefully. Maybe you'll peak soon.

Go on. It's very liberating.

'Living as a woman,' you say? Seems to make sense...until you think about it, and then you realise, the only difference is the stereotypical bullshit.

Think about this: Homosexuality is illegal, even punishable by death, in some middle eastern cultures. Yet transing from male to female in those same cultures is allowed, as long as you pretend you are female and everyone else also pretends. Hmm, interesting, why is that, I wonder? Maybe it's something to do with the patriarchy

Oh no it must be because living as a woman is a real thing and I've heard if you really concentrate you can incubate a human embryo in your testes

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/05/2025 08:05

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 08:03

Not wanting third spaces is too extreme a position. Everyone's feeling matter, not just trans people's, and if women aren't comfortable with even fully transitioned TW using female loos, then TW should accept that there is no perfect solution and that third spaces are the most reasonable adjustment.

Go onto Reddit and tell them that then. It isn’t anything to do with women.

Datun · 04/05/2025 08:05

StuckUpPrincess

I agree with other posters that you sound like you're trying to be kind. And you're getting a lot of pushback.

It's a journey. You're on the train.

People will get frustrated because they want your train to speed up. That's all.

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 08:06

StormyPotatoes · 04/05/2025 07:59

Are we really back to the ‘educate yourself’ manta?

I’m clearly not the only one here who is confused by this and I’m sure who would give me a different answer to be honest. If I recall, even the GRC didn’t give a clear definitely other than using a female name on a household bill. Who should be asking for clarity on this if even the law can’t answer? My friends and family aren’t going to come up with anything different.

Edited

I think it would be the most useful for you to observe for yourself how the men and women around you live differently, than for an internet stranger to try to tell you.

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 08:06

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 08:03

Not wanting third spaces is too extreme a position. Everyone's feeling matter, not just trans people's, and if women aren't comfortable with even fully transitioned TW using female loos, then TW should accept that there is no perfect solution and that third spaces are the most reasonable adjustment.

I'm with you, there.

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 08:07

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 08:06

I think it would be the most useful for you to observe for yourself how the men and women around you live differently, than for an internet stranger to try to tell you.

But I live very differently from my neighbour, and my sister, and my mother and my daughter.

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 08:08

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 08:07

But I live very differently from my neighbour, and my sister, and my mother and my daughter.

Some women i have absolutely nothing at all in common with other than being biologically female.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/05/2025 08:09

Again, if you can’t explain how “women” live, how do you know a man is living as one? Why are people being told it’s simple then not told what it is?

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