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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Amendment to Data Bill to revert all gender markers and out all trans people

412 replies

bluegoldflow · 02/05/2025 22:07

Hoping this passes, it shouldn't be possible to change your sex (a biological impossibility) on legal documents. This would prevent men using this loop hole to erase their past identities and stop male crimes being recorded as female crimes.

Amendment to Data Bill to revert all gender markers and out all trans people
Amendment to Data Bill to revert all gender markers and out all trans people
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CleaningSilverCandlesticks · 05/05/2025 10:43

To consistently refer to us as men is not only deeply disrespectful—it is discriminatory. It is a conscious choice to invalidate our identities and erase our humanity.

You are men, there is nothing wrong with being a man. Men are human too so how can it erase your humanity? It is not as if you are being referred to by body part like women have been reduced to by your ideology. Yes of course it is discriminatory - if words didn’t discriminate they would be meaningless. The word woman discriminates between those who are adult human females and that which is not - be they men, cats, or a houseplant.

You may demand others uphold your fantasy, but we don’t have to follow your demands.

Waitwhat23 · 05/05/2025 10:44

CleaningSilverCandlesticks · 05/05/2025 10:37

Calling for the death of women but careful not to harm flowers…

We've been told that by posters on other threads that it was a simply super day! Lovely picnic, having a lovely singsong of 'fuck JKR', admiring the lovely flowers (careful not to step on them!) and having a piss on a statue. With a side order of violent signs!

Don't know what we're all worried about!

CleaningSilverCandlesticks · 05/05/2025 10:45

FloatingSquirrel · 05/05/2025 10:10

Goodwin states a person's gender identity is a privacy right. That's absolutely allowed. However someone's sex shouldn't be as it is necessary to know to protect other people's rights (eg ensuring someone doesn't have a man doing an intimate medical examination when they've only consented to a female doing it).

Goodwin drew this right quite narrowly. It did not extend to individuals having to pretend he was a woman.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/05/2025 10:47

Waitwhat23 · 05/05/2025 10:44

We've been told that by posters on other threads that it was a simply super day! Lovely picnic, having a lovely singsong of 'fuck JKR', admiring the lovely flowers (careful not to step on them!) and having a piss on a statue. With a side order of violent signs!

Don't know what we're all worried about!

Yes, it was like the event in Scotland where women were jeered at and one woman was spat at by a male TRA being described as a “happy carnival” or similar in a recent court case.

RedToothBrush · 05/05/2025 10:48

CleaningSilverCandlesticks · 05/05/2025 10:45

Goodwin drew this right quite narrowly. It did not extend to individuals having to pretend he was a woman.

Edited

It simply couldn't extend to others pretending he was a woman - otherwise how on earth could he get medical treatment... ?

LadyChillT · 05/05/2025 10:49

FeministUnderTheCatriarchy · 05/05/2025 07:57

Firstly, please try to write authentically vs getting ChatGpt to do it for you.

Secondly, no, it isn't bigotry to centre women (adult human females) in feminism. It is not “gatekeeping” to say that women have the right to keep and defend our own spaces, our rights, and our reality.

The endless emotional appeals and accusations of hate are just abusive gaslighting designed to silence women who dare to speak the truth (just like we suffer every day from men in general).

Trans women aren't women. They are trans identifying males. They have not lived female socialization, they are not subject to female biology, and they do not experience the lifelong systemic oppression that feminism was built to fight.

Dress however you want, have whatever surgery you like. Refer to yourself amongst your circle as your pronouns you prefer. But none of that changes the reality and it should not mean that you can barge into our spaces at whim.

We are constantly told to be kind, to be inclusive, to make room. But women fought for generations to have rights based on our sex. Not on identity. Not on feelings. And certainly not to be told that speaking about the REALITY of male violence is somehow hatespeech. To say that trans identifying males don't commit sexual and violent crimes is just another instance of denying reality. Gaslighting.

And we do not make “blanket assumptions.” We are intelligent enough to see patterns of male violence with our own eyeballs and we know that self-ID allows predators to exploit legal loopholes. That isn’t fear-mongering—it’s bloody reality.

Look at the cases in women’s prisons, shelters, sports, and changing rooms. The stories of vulnerable women being asked to LEAVE spaces THEY need in favour of protecting the feelings of men. Women who have been subjected to male violence and misogyny, expected to once again fawn and placate men.

At the risk of sounding a bit childish for a moment... It is FUCKING UNFAIR.

Trans women have every right to live safely and free from HARM. I do not hate anyone. I don't care how anyone dresses, but I begin to care when my safety starts being impacted. When my rights start being erroded.

As someone who was sexually abused as a child by a man, sexually assaulted as a teen by a man, roofied and attempted rape by a man, not to mention countless times of sexual harassment, intimidation and misogyny, I have every right to be fearful. In fact it would be illogical if I wasn't.

This is not a zero-sum game where women must sacrifice everything so no one’s feelings are hurt. It’s not our job to pretend that males are women to protect anyone’s ego.

You say “the word woman is not a threat.” But it’s not just a word—it’s a reality. A word rooted in our biology, and in centuries of oppression unique to females.

We are born into womanhood—we do not choose it. It defines a life shaped by systemic disadvantage, not identity. You scoff when we defend the word, claim it’s “just semantics,” yet fight fiercely to take it. If it’s just a word, why is it so important to you—and so silly to us?

Because it’s not just a word. It’s a political category and you all know very well that if you take our word, you can take everything else. It belongs to the people who were born into it, along with the violence, medical misogyny, economic inequality, and social conditioning that come with it.

Even trans-identified males who transition young are still biologically male, socialised as boys, and carry the benefits of that development in a patriarchal society.

You say you’re not trying to erase us. But when you demand our language, our spacea our legal protections, and then call us bigots for resisting—that is erasure. That is misogyny.

Feminism is for women. Not for males who want to co-opt our identity. Not for men who buy into gender stereotypes and think that makes them a woman. Not for entitled men who have no idea what it is like to be a eoman raped by a man, demanding access to rape shelters.

Not for individuals who threaten, dox, and abuse women for stating basic biological facts.

We will not be shamed, gaslit or manipulated into submission. We see what’s happening and we are not playing along!!!

I have encountered 3 trans identifying males in my life. The first the adult child of a family friend. This person was extremely sexually inappropriate but called himself "one of the girls". He wore clothes that normal wouldn't wear and was very provocative, daring people say soemthing. He was verbally abusive to his mother who he bossed around and he didn't lift a finger to help her (conveniently opting in and out of what women "should" be doing when it fancied him).

The second was in the post office. He cornered me in an aisle, lifted up his dress and showed me his penis through his white lace panties. This was extremely traumatising for me given my history.

And the third person started a campaign of online gate against tme when I expressed some of my views on an online platform. He sent me the most vile, disgusting messages and threats. He told me that I was on a list that is shared around, where they work together to find out our information so they can teach us a lesson.

He told me that I would be kept in a basement and beaten and tied up.

I'm sorry, but that is only a threat a man would make. How am I supposed to pretend that a woman was threstening me with those things?

I have come accross other trans identifying males in passing out in general life. The experiences have ranged from uncomfortable to scary.

I have not had a single truly positive interaction. Not one.

Edit: it is a fact that women commit far fewer sexual and violent crimes than men. It is a fact that trans identifying males commit more sexual crimes than women.

It is exceedingly important for the safety of women that we do not have these statistics muddied by lumping in trans identifying males with our numbers. This WILL have a huge affect on our ability to advocate for ourselves and you know it.

Your comment is just one big straw man argument.

Edited

rapturousapplause.gif

FloatingSquirrel · 05/05/2025 10:51

Brainworm · 05/05/2025 10:39

With reference to personal data of any kind, we have a right to withhold it (we shouldn’t even be asked for it) unless there is a proportionate reason for collecting and storing it.

Therefore, if there is a genuine reason why sex needs to be known, gender identity/certified sex would not align with the purpose the data will serve.

This comes back to whether sex really needs recording in the first place, in any given circumstance.

If we take passports and driving licences- why is sex recorded? The data recorded as sex is actually sex, certified sex or gender identity. With this in mind, what’s the proportionate reason for recording it?

Obviously sex needs to be recorded in lots of situations. In medical records, for allocating wards, for schools or university's or sports clubs where there are any changing areas or physical contact in sports, for people taken into custody.

It being on ID allows those situations to check the ID. The same as age is recorded to ensure people are of legal age for situations.

FeministUnderTheCatriarchy · 05/05/2025 10:54

LadyChillT · 05/05/2025 10:49

rapturousapplause.gif

That is so kind of you.

I realised that I forgot to spell check my comment and as you can see I got a bit emotional towards the end, but I am very grateful to be able to express my feelings about this topic here.

TangenitalContrivance · 05/05/2025 10:55

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Brainworm · 05/05/2025 10:58

FloatingSquirrel · 05/05/2025 10:51

Obviously sex needs to be recorded in lots of situations. In medical records, for allocating wards, for schools or university's or sports clubs where there are any changing areas or physical contact in sports, for people taken into custody.

It being on ID allows those situations to check the ID. The same as age is recorded to ensure people are of legal age for situations.

Im not saying that sex never needs to be recorded. My point is that where certified sex and/or self identified sex are considered appropriate alternatives to record instead of sex, it seems hard to believe their was sufficient justification for recording sex in the first place.

BingoWindow · 05/05/2025 11:02

I cannot get my head around in insistence of TWAW and falsifying data, it's so dangerous medically for the trans community.
The majority of men claiming to be transwomen will die with prostrate cancer.
Is it really worth the momentary kick when the invite came for the NHS for cervical screening. What a waste of resources. My trans sibling almost framed it, a standard admin process validating his thinking.
And if the Trans community are not getting breast, cervical or prostrate cancer we need to know if the crazy cocktail of hormones they have taken has accidentally stumbled on something that could protect everyone.

RedToothBrush · 05/05/2025 11:03

Brainworm · 05/05/2025 10:58

Im not saying that sex never needs to be recorded. My point is that where certified sex and/or self identified sex are considered appropriate alternatives to record instead of sex, it seems hard to believe their was sufficient justification for recording sex in the first place.

Some documents are for proof. You need them to prove your sex. That is your legitimate reason for recording sex.

If you can't see sex, you can't see sexism nor safeguard properly. So if you have a legal obligation to not allow sex discrimination or have duty of care obligations (which is universal as a human right) then you have an obligation to record sex. Otherwise you can't see sexism and can't safeguard.

Lots of people seem to want to avoid the equality element here, despite this massive push for equality and diversity training. Funny when its relevant to women too, everyone suddenly wants to go 'gender neutral' on everything to protect their own arses.

BackToLurk · 05/05/2025 11:04

IleftmybaginNewportPagnell · 05/05/2025 10:40

Agree those signs are abhorrent.

..and the fact that not one person appeared to challenge their fellow flower-protecting marchers? Is that abhorrent too?

RedToothBrush · 05/05/2025 11:07

And as Invisible Women points out so clearly - gender neutral is actually default human (aka male) in terms of who it works for.

IleftmybaginNewportPagnell · 05/05/2025 11:07

This reply has been deleted

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Disgusting - I’ve reported this.

RegimentalSturgeon · 05/05/2025 11:13

If you lined them up in ascending order of pitch of voice, then showed them the order one at a time, it would be like a gigantic human piano.

‘oMG, I can’t believe you want to hit trans people with actual hammers’

FloatingSquirrel · 05/05/2025 11:14

Brainworm · 05/05/2025 10:58

Im not saying that sex never needs to be recorded. My point is that where certified sex and/or self identified sex are considered appropriate alternatives to record instead of sex, it seems hard to believe their was sufficient justification for recording sex in the first place.

The only reason self identified sex was recorded was the push for people to follow that belief system as real. It doesn't mean sex being recorded wasn't necessary.

IleftmybaginNewportPagnell · 05/05/2025 11:14

BackToLurk · 05/05/2025 11:04

..and the fact that not one person appeared to challenge their fellow flower-protecting marchers? Is that abhorrent too?

Well yes - I was going to add to my post that I would’ve felt unhappy if I’d seen that sign and challenged them, but didn’t want to derail this thread. The police did a good job I thought. FWIW I HATE the term cis. The people I care about know I’ll have their backs, I read these threads occasionally to see the challenges they’re up against. Probably shouldn’t, it’s upsetting. I’m not radical just an issue very close to me.

CleaningSilverCandlesticks · 05/05/2025 11:17

IleftmybaginNewportPagnell · 05/05/2025 11:14

Well yes - I was going to add to my post that I would’ve felt unhappy if I’d seen that sign and challenged them, but didn’t want to derail this thread. The police did a good job I thought. FWIW I HATE the term cis. The people I care about know I’ll have their backs, I read these threads occasionally to see the challenges they’re up against. Probably shouldn’t, it’s upsetting. I’m not radical just an issue very close to me.

So you were there and didn’t see it?

CompleteGinasaur · 05/05/2025 11:18

MagpiePi · 05/05/2025 09:22

Like Louis XI’s pig piano?

Male Chauvinist Pig piano, maybe?

Waitwhat23 · 05/05/2025 11:19

Difference is, if equivalent signs had been displayed at a women's rights event (and they never have btw), they would have immediately been challenged by many women saying 'what the fuck are you doing? That's horrendous!'.

The fact there were multiple signs, at multiple events and they don't seem to have been challenged at all, by anyone, tells it's own story.

Even the Police were like 'ah, well, they're signs from a past event nbd' until the time and location stamps were pointed out.

Puttinginthemiles · 05/05/2025 11:19

TruthInTransition · 05/05/2025 07:50

Your message unfairly paints an entire population with the brush of your personal grievances. That is not only irresponsible—it’s dangerous. You are attributing the actions of a few individuals, real or alleged, to an entire marginalized community. That’s not justice. That’s scapegoating.

I am a trans woman. I’ve been battered by a cisgender woman in a relationship. Should I now assume all cis women are violent? Should we judge every cis woman by the actions of Nicola Murray, a convicted child abuser? No. Because I understand that people are individuals, not political talking points or collective enemies. I am bigger than hate. I choose not to engage in bigotry, even when I have reason to feel hurt.

What you’re doing—making sweeping, incendiary claims about people you don’t know—is not just morally wrong. It could also be legally questionable. Do you have evidence? Names? Documentation? Or are you repeating narratives designed to inflame and vilify?

We must be better than this. Reducing people to stereotypes, projecting blame on entire communities, and justifying hatred with anecdote is not the path to progress. It's the path to division and dehumanization. You may feel justified, but that doesn’t make it just.

You're being deliberately obtuse. It's almost exclusively males who make us feel uncomfortable, unsafe, abuse, assault, rape and murder us. Our issue is with males. Trans identifying males have pushed their way into single sex female spaces. We want them back (and never should have been forced to give them up in the first place). Now we have them back thanks to the SC ruling.

We deserve single sex spaces. Shame on you for thinking otherwise.

Annoyedone · 05/05/2025 11:20

It’s so funny that all these posters who were at that demo having a lovely day out didn’t see the criminal damage, public urination or the many signs threatening women but would definitely have challenged them. I mean, what are women worried about? All trans people are lovely and would never hurt a fly and are just sooooo oppressed and marginalised. Women should just give up their rights and let these delicate little flowers into our spaces for our own good. It’ll be in our best interests in the long run and we’ll all live happily in harmony and joy. 😂😂😂😂😂😂

IleftmybaginNewportPagnell · 05/05/2025 11:22

CleaningSilverCandlesticks · 05/05/2025 11:17

So you were there and didn’t see it?

Yes I was there and didn’t see that sign or anything aggressive.

BackToLurk · 05/05/2025 11:22

Annoyedone · 05/05/2025 11:20

It’s so funny that all these posters who were at that demo having a lovely day out didn’t see the criminal damage, public urination or the many signs threatening women but would definitely have challenged them. I mean, what are women worried about? All trans people are lovely and would never hurt a fly and are just sooooo oppressed and marginalised. Women should just give up their rights and let these delicate little flowers into our spaces for our own good. It’ll be in our best interests in the long run and we’ll all live happily in harmony and joy. 😂😂😂😂😂😂

I suppose if you spend your life pretending that you can't see that a man is obviously a man then you get used to just not seeing what's right in front of your eyes.

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