Girl guides are not safe. Parents beware!

[HelenaTranscart]

From James Esses:

A whistleblower from
@Girlguiding
has been in touch. Volunteers have been instructed that, irrespective of the Supreme Court judgement, boys who identify as girls can use female camp rooms and toilets. Worse still, parents must not be told.

This is a safeguarding nightmare.

https://x.com/JamesEsses/status/1915689045356654904

I’m a leader. The comments on the FB message (as per screenshot above) are quite sickening. And of course anyone commenting in a GC way are being accused of being hateful, transphobes etc and they’re asking GG to remove those comments!

When there was talk of going mixed sex in the 90s (? - around the same time the scouts did), it was put to a vote among members and at the time it was overwhelmingly voted to stay single sex. It could only by done by change to the royal charter / bye-laws I think, which needs a majority of the council vote. The council is made by elected persons from the countries / regions but i dont know the rules on whether they would need to consult with members. But i have to say that I think all very many leaders would be absolutely opposed to becoming a mixed sex org, girls repeatedly tell us they like girlguiding being single sex and it would probably be the end of Girlguiding in its current form. There's already lots of unhappiness at the selling off of the activity centres and at getting rid of British guiding overseas. I think this is a really testing period for the organisation more generally.

If this happened I'd report.
Luckily existing CEO is leaving. She's a nutter. Totally career driven and does care about girls.
Fingers gets crossed for new appointment.
I do envy scouts for their leader attended AGM.

The scout ceo that introduced their trans policy has also resigned. Not to mention how critical the coroner was of scouts policies after the sad death of some explorers whilst hill walking with no comms, no risk assessments, leaders who didnt even know where they were. I hardly think the scouts have got things right either. The new one has only been in place since the end of 2024 so this will be an interesting test of his position.

The handmaidens are definitely out in force on the GG Facebook page comments section tonight. Worrying how so many of them don't seem to have a clue why so much safeguarding is based on sex segregation...

Those GG comments are terrifying. And I know one of the commentators in person.

I’m too much of a coward to post what I really think on the thread. I am ashamed.

Yes, I think a lot of us agree but are staying quiet because the repercussions of speaking out of this stuff can be horrible, so it’s going to be skewed towards the other way. Someone calling for anyone agreeing with the SC stuff to be reported to GG so their position as a leader can be reviewed!

I’m about an inch from walking. I just don’t get it, why can’t these people see the obvious?

I just read the messages on the Facebook site. As a mother, I’d be horrified to find in a organisation that promotes girls, there could be boys sharing tents.

I’m guessing they’ll go mixed sex.

I certainly wouldn’t stay if we opened to all boys, if that was a route they decided to go down. I do this because I think it’s important to have female-only spaces. If I wanted to have a unit with boys in I’d be a scout leader or something else. I want to work with girls and young women.

I will stay if they continue to accept transgirls/women until such a time as it affects my units or our activities (or my own daughters who are/will be in GG too). I think it’s unlikely to be an issue for my units (and I can remove it from being an issue to a limited degree if it does happen by clever use of my waiting list) and the difference it makes to girls (the real kind) in my community is huge so I won’t take that away from them because of more fuckwittery by men unless I feel there’s no choice. Very conscious that’s not making a stand, but if I walk that’s 35 girls without a unit as I’m the sole leader for two units and it feels shit for them to bear the brunt of TRA nonsense.

Commenting has been turned off on FB now.

Mixed sex organisations will still need to put the transgirls in the boys tent. Have scouts been dishonest about this too? I see people saying that at least with scouts you know it is mixed sex but surely the issue with shared tents is entirely the same as with GG currently, if they have the same 'inclusion' policy. Do they?

https://www.scouts.org.uk/volunteers/equity-diversity-and-inclusion/lgbtqplus/trans-and-gender-identity/

Here's the policy for you to have a look through.

Same here
I can't post in Facebook as it would be bringing us into disrepute.
There are only 2 reasons why male people want to be on GG

1. They are sexual predators
2. They are parents (sadly mostly women) who were disappointed in having boys or who can't accept that their son doesn't meet their definition of male....boys like girls should be free to be who they want to be.

@GuidingSpirit Looks like there is a lot of wanting to accommodate a transchild's wants but no instruction as to which tent that scout would have to use. Again plenty about keeping confidentiality of a trans identity but not using this information to ensure other scouts are kept safe from unwittingly being in a mixed sex environment. Same as GG as far as I can tell. Thank you for linkng.

I disagree. I think an awful lot of them are ordinary women who have hook, line and sinker bought into the narrative that poor trans women are the most oppressed minority ever, and that as women, it is their duty to be kind and inclusive. Sadly this has come at the expense of using their brains to think critically about why we might want to preserve single sex spaces...

And... I totally misread your post!! Sorry, thought you were talking about the comments on the FB page and not why men would want to be in GG in the first place.

I read those comments. It's horrifying how many supposed leaders are screaming transphobia and threatening to leave if GG do the right and legal thing. It's just more of the same from the tra.

Th comments on the GG Facebook are wild!! They are nearly all ‘we must be trans inclusive’ and a couple of very gentle pushbacks - just stating what the law is, so they’ve turned off comments so that no-one feels ‘unsafe’. Never mind the girls that might feel unsafe about being tricked into mixed sex situations without their consent or knowledge! They don’t seem to realise that saying that ‘trans women and girls’ are male is a perfectly reasonable thing to say. Some of them want the people who’ve tried to explain the law to be ‘investigated’. And I’m ashamed that I’m not brave enough to say it. I did not think it’s sunk in yet that if they admit some males that have to admit all of them, however they identify.

To my mind, the GG mandate was for a girls only organisation. The SC have deemed that means biology. GG cannot admit trans girls and women without opening themselves up to discrimination claims from men.
It's going to be a painful and embarrassing climb down but equally I think cooler heads will breathe a sigh or relief.
The vitriol on the FB page was not surprising but TWAW just doesn't cut it now. The GG must cede to the SC ruling.

Are there any consequences for being in breach of the Equality Act?

Good question. I'm not entirely sure - probably depends on what kind of organisation you are. Government bodies must comply - it will be a requirement in their legal framework. Either explicit or implicit.
For example where I work, we are occasionally directed by another Govt body to do certain things. We know there's no teeth to the request but we try very hard to meet those requirements.
Otherwise I imagine it's going to be directed by Court action. If someone feels that they're being discriminated against they can follow whatever complaints processes exist and if that fails they can take it to court.
Risks being if a body is found to have been discriminating they will be fined - plus reputational damage.

I think there are two key differences between Scouts and Guides on this right now. Scouts recognise that there are two sexes and Guides don't. Scouts have long needed to figure out how to accommodate those two sexes and Guides haven't.

However, both are similar in that individual leaders are the ones making the granular decisions you're thinking about e.g. whether Blue should share with Freya or Fred. In either organisation, it's possible that a captured leader could create a mixed-sex sleeping arrangement without telling anyone. Or that a captured parent could put a child into a group without declaring their true sex.

I'm a Scout leader for ages 10-17 and, in my county, I think it's extremely unlikely to be happening. Safeguarding policies keep adults (age 18+) and children (age 17 or younger) strictly separate. Anyone in a position of power (e.g. a young leader working with younger kids, like a 16 year old working with Scouts aged 10-14) must have separate accommodation from the kids they're working with.

As I said up-thread, Scouting is a welcoming home to young people who don't fit into other places. Some of these young people have blue hair and pronoun badges, and rather rigid thinking about rules: I get the impression that they take their Scouting and safeguarding responsibilities seriously - and that they are keeping themselves and others safe by maintaining sex-separated sleeping arrangements for themselves. I can't be sure - noone can, while so many people are still confused the difference between sex and gender - but that's what I think is happening.

If they are a single sex charity (albeit "trans inclusive") why is this "whistle-blower" an actual man?

I’m guessing they have men working at hq .