Girl guides are not safe. Parents beware!

[HelenaTranscart]

From James Esses:

A whistleblower from
@Girlguiding
has been in touch. Volunteers have been instructed that, irrespective of the Supreme Court judgement, boys who identify as girls can use female camp rooms and toilets. Worse still, parents must not be told.

This is a safeguarding nightmare.

https://x.com/JamesEsses/status/1915689045356654904

Am a former District Commissioner (as recently as 10 years ago) and am more than horrified!!

Absolutely disgusting.
Girls should be discouraged from having anything to do with the Girl Guides.

Who is going to enforce what the SC have said? Seems to me that a lot of organisations will ignore it. Surely it cant be up to individuals to take them to court one by one.

Not necessarily - all our local groups were girls only, no boys-who-think-they-are-girls, and only women volunteers. The leaders were as GC as they come.

Until it became an actual issue, with a transwoman applying to be a leader locally or a boy attending, we were all happy to carry on as normal. No point denying the girls such a lot of great experiences and friendships when it was only ever theoretical (locally) that males could join. We hold out hope the policy will have to change in line with the SC ruling.

Our duaghters aged out of the movement and no males had applied during that time, thankfully.

According to them: https://www.girlguiding.org.uk/information-for-volunteers/running-your-unit/including-all/lgbt-members/supporting-trans-young-members/

Both boys and girls can join if they are either female sex or have a female identity. Confusing but boys who say they're girls, girls and girls who say they are boys can all join... Yet they still call themselves single sex!

That makes sense, @MoistVonLand @BaronessEllarawrosaurus- I guess in groups where it’s not yet an issue, it’s understandable that parents would want to cross that bridge if it arises in practice rather than letting their girls miss out on such a formative experience.

I hope this isn't true. For the first time ever, I've had a look at the Girl Guides website. (I'm a former Guide and mother of a former Brownie.) There is no reference in the main sections of the site to female-identifying children. It is highly deceptive to allow them to join without a clear policy being published. Lady Baden Powell must be turning in her grave.

@LonginesPrime - I suspect the vast majority of groups are female only. My daughter got so, so much from her years as a Rainbow, Brownie, Guide and Ranger and Junior Leader. She had absolutely amazing experiences I couldn't offer her (and don't want to! I am not a camper!).

It would have been shame to miss out on all that on the off chance some ghastly entitled and tone-deaf parent tried to foist their male child into an all-girls activity. Cubs and Scouts are mixed sex for those who want it.

I’m a volunteer with GGUK and haven’t been told this ( and would be questioning it if I was!) Do you know where that’s come from?

God forbid a trans identifying boy's rights should ever be breached.

not quite in the filing cabinet guarded by a leopard but buried fairly deep

https://www.girlguiding.org.uk/information-for-volunteers/running-your-unit/including-all/lgbt-members/supporting-trans-members/

This guidance was developed with support from Stonewall and Gendered Intelligence.

As a GG leader, I do care but at the moment it’s purely hypothetical because we’ve never had a trans girl or woman want to join. Maybe if that ever happens it’ll push me to rethink but I think the chance of it happening, especially in the younger age groups, is pretty low for most units, so until that happens the benefit to all the girls in my units is definitely enough to keep going.

Male volunteers are allowed and have been for a long time. They can be unit helpers and parent helpers. So it’s not the case that it’s always women and girls at meetings and events generally.

As a Guide leader I am very frustrated with the policy. Fortunately it's not an issue for us locally. We know this as whatever anyone says leaders and parents would be highly unlikely to be unaware of the sex of trans girls.
I, and all the leaders that I know wouldn't allow mixed sex sleeping. That would be bonkers (potentially literally and even GGHQ talk about letting 'transgirls' use different facilities to protect their identity...)
The bigger issue at this age group is confused girls struggling to cope with changes in their body. As a leader I feel it is really important that we continue to stress that girls can do anything and to challenge the stereotypes that feed the gender movement. We're not a group for stereotypical girlie girls. We're a group for girls.

It's good that no trans girl or woman has wanted to join, but it shows that developing a trans policy was performative - and an attempt to 'Be prepared'. I see the scouts have been captured too.

Its takes a lot of clicking on links, but see below.

@IdaGlossop

While your group may not have had any join, there’s certainly been at least on one TW in a senior leadership position - don’t know if still in post or not, as the piece says it’s not a post open to men.

https://whatisawoman.uk/MonicaSulley/

The girl guides have long been blasé about safeguarding.

Who can forget girl guide commissioner Monica Sully cracking his whip and asking if you want to see more than just his boobs

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10235539/Girlguides-launch-probe-trans-Commissioner-58-saucy-dominatrix-style-picture.html

Cross posting there, Errol. I didn't get over my outrage over that twat for quite a few weeks!

Fortunately he 'resigned'.
Was a very dodgy character also involved in Scouts. Not someone you'd want anywhere near young people.
Not heard anything recently.
There was a recent piece about a Rainbow (4 to 7 year old)....But recently they seem to have dialled down on it a bit. I was pleased to see that the recent Pride merch mostly avoided the progress flag and had returned to the original one.

Sulley was a signatory to a letter to London Pride organised by Aimee Challenor, condemning the protests by lesbians during the Pride march in 2018

Aimee Challenor who married a paedophile and whose father was jailed for a good few decades for torturing and raping a child in the Challoner family home. Edited to add that, iirc, challoner also claimed to have input in the girl guide policy

There's a reason why women like to send their daughters to single sex organisations.

'As a girl-only organisation with a trans inclusive policy'; so not a girls-only organisation at all.

Anecdotally, it sounds like it's more likely to come up in Scouting than Guiding. I'm a leader for ages 10-17 and among, say, 16-24 year olds, it's not at all unusual to meet people who are gender non-confirming with brightly coloured hair, pronoun badges and 'known as' names.

These young people quite often seem to be autistic - they have non-typical affects and seem to thrive on side-by-side social interactions which follow a set of formal rules. Scouting is very welcoming and it's home for them.

Scout safeguarding rules generally keep things on an even keel. Adults aged 18+ must follow adult rules in their interactions with children. Everyone must be offered privacy to change, but mixed-sex tents are permitted if appropriately risk-assessed. In reality, it would be a cold day in hell before any of the groups I'm with allowed mixed-sex tents.

I have, however, run into problems with showers and washrooms; only theoretically, I hasten to add, and not in practice. For example, I've received instructions that leaders should let kids know which washroom they should use - rather than stipulating single-sex washrooms. I asked for clarification but received no reply. I like Scouting, and nothing untoward happened, so I didn't push it. It doesn't feel fantastic, though. And with the SC judgement, I'd be more inclined to try again to get a response.

Thank-you for this informative post. It's such a complex area. Your account alone shows the idiocy of the government response about clarity from the Supreme court judgement. There are going to be years of discussion, debate, drafting, and redrafting. Meanwhile, the minority of children confused about their gender identity will continue to struggle, and the minority of adults who have transitioned or who are living as the sex different to the one they were born with will continue to feel discriminated against.

Exactly!

It's important not to enable the nice political figleaf over the top of all this by using the 'inclusive' word that makes it sound like something nice and positive and right.

This is quite simply putting the wishes and desires of male people and politics above the best interests and even the basic safety of girls. And being dishonest to avoid parents being able to safeguard or remove their daughters from being so used. It is perfectly happy to exclude any girls and families of diverse politics, cultures, beliefs and thoughts who cannot or will not obey the gender politics. There is nothing 'inclusive' about it.