Trans women are still women 2nd thread

[beetr00]

So very important for all sides.

Just wanted to continue this interesting and somewhat "provocative" debate

So a woman is a fancy dress costume! wow! So they are not women if they are having to pretend to be one then?

If they are women how does a woman become a trans woman?

No a woman in a superhero costume (the example you gave) is in fancy dress. Are you ok?

I don’t - put the bins out, wash the car, cut the grass, do any DIY. In our house, they’re “blue jobs.”

They’re blue jobs for the very obvious reasons. It stands to reason that there are also “pink jobs.”

My partner doesn’t shave his legs, he’s not spending £50 on haircuts, he’s not bothered if his nails look like shit.

Does nobody have “maternal instinct” anymore, or “female intuition”?

We can’t say there aren’t gender conforming stereotypes when most of us do live by them.

A man dressed as a woman is a man dressed as a woman then! He doesn;t become a woman if he wears what you call 'woman costume' in the same way that I do not become batman the minute I dress up as that character.

Aye I am grand thanks. Can you answer my question?

As Zoldevort so accurately said on the other thread -

The one and only absolute criteria to be a transwoman, is to be a man

So are you saying that gender is based on stereotypes and therefore we are now saying that if people do not meet the stereotypes they must be the other gender?

Wow I reckon I could be a man, that's serious news to me and to my kids that I birthed.

I mean it's all just so regressive and this totally and utterly ignores the fact that for some men it's nothing more than a fetish.

@whippy1981 are you asking me in a roundabout way if I believe trans women are women? No I believe women are women and trans women are trans women. The two are not the same. I have no objection to trans women but i support women’s right to be safe and to thrive in society.

I agree

Can anyone explain what 'trans' is then?

Nope I didn't ask that.

So you mean they wear trans woman costumes not women costumes?

Completely agree with you on that. Trans women are men and women are women.

I'm guessing clothing and make-up.

A prefix meaning someone who would like to be the opposite sex to the one they were born into?

I think there are lots of different types of men and lots of different types of women. But they are both defined by their biology, and our SC has confirmed this which highlights it's importance.

I think opening up the bandwidth of being a woman in our navel gazing privileged 1st world culture is just saying that female archetypes define womanhood. No man is aspiring to be an impoverished African woman, labouring at collecting water for her family to survive.

We've had to get real and 'unkind' about it and reach this crucial truth because women have had some very unreasonable scenarios thrown at them.

Actually to be fair that's the best definition I've seen.

Gender ideology is definitely informed by stereotypes and cultural “norms,” yeah.

You personally don’t have to live by them, or follow them, but I don’t believe it can be denied to exist.

ETA - the sexual fetish thing I actually agree with. Some men fetishise the idea of being a woman, but that doesn’t remove the group of genuine trans people who don’t have those intentions. Part of the issue with the debate is conflating the two - they’re not the same and they don’t have the same motivations.

This ☝️
👏 👏 👏

No I don't deny they exist, I just don't think there is any valid argument that it is ever progressive for society to be built around a set of stereotypes.

My heart aches for the children who've been caught up in this nonsense. For shame. How regressive to tell a boy who likes pink he's really a girl or a girl who doesn't like dolls but prefers trucks she must be a boy.

Scandalous.

That’s so minimising.

There are things we see in girls that we don’t see in little boys, for example. If you see them in your little boy, he may well be trans - and I think it’s a shame for parents to take issue with that, or shame them for that when they’re older.

don’t - put the bins out, wash the car, cut the grass, do any DIY. In our house, they’re “blue jobs.”
They’re blue jobs for the very obvious reasons.
What are the very obvious reasons that these are blue jobs?

No I disagree transwomen are wearing clothes. As women, men, non binary and trans men wear clothes. It’s not a costume it’s just clothing. You can call trans women men if you want to be pedantic because genetically they are born male. But why not just call them trans women?

I can't believe you've actually written those words - Operation Let Them Speak in action: if a little boy rejects socially-constructed gender stereotypes and likes something only girls are 'supposed' to do, he may be transgender?
Why can't he just be a little boy who likes what he likes and feck the stereotypes?

Because they are predominantly done by men.

My daughter is gender non conforming. She's also autistic, CAMHS thought she might be a boy.

She isn't. She's a girl, a girl with short hair who loves to play cricket and doesn't conform to things that most 15 year old girls do.

There is nothing wrong with a girl who doesn't conform with stereotypes. It doesn't mean that she is a trans boy.

So many vulnerable teenage girls wearing chest binders, wanting puberty blockers and eventually cross sex hormones and double mastectomies.

And you think I'm minimising???

For goodness sake, and I'll repeat THE FACT THAT A PERSON DOESN'T CONFORM TO GENDER STEREOTYPES DOES NOT MAKE THEM THE OPPOSITE GENDER.

Fucking hideous what not minimising is doing!

Did I fall asleep and wake up in the early 1970s? Little boys liking girls things and therefore not being 'real' boys, men putting out the bins and washing the cars...

Nonsense