Trans women are still women 2nd thread

[beetr00]

So very important for all sides.

Just wanted to continue this interesting and somewhat "provocative" debate

is it really that easy though @FortyElephants?

1000 posts and the debate has resolved?

I have to admit, I struggle with this issue.

I believe that "sex" is binary.

My 30+ year old children, disagree.

I am totally willing to be educated though and I want to hear everyone, whichever side.

Hope they take their she pees... Oh hang on...

We’re is the debate though OP?

trans women are trans women - that’s just a fact and not really debatable

What makes a woman a woman?

Easy - a female human who survives to adulthood.

Men and boys are not female humans even if they believe that they have a gender identity.

Ok, @SleeplessInWherever

"if we all just operated a bit of minding our own business"

(don't use ma toilet though)

By having to say trans women are women says it all …. Biological women don’t have to scream that they are women

transwomen are not and have never been women

Fixed the title for you

Sex IS binary. If your 30 year old plus children don't think it is because DSDs exist, they had a poor education. Suggest they listen to expert Prof Robert Winston and educate themselves.

If they think gender is more important because biological sex isn't clear enough for them, ask them to provide their cast iron definition of woman gender and man gender (note, 'a woman is anyone who identifies as a woman', is not a definition of woman gender, it just tells us how one can become a member of the woman gender).

Biology, same as every other female animal.

Yours personally? I won’t, don’t worry.

If we open the door to men, it's wide open to not only being abused, but on top of that, sex based protections being potentially taken away for all and sundry in the future. I am concerned that men will argue against these protections at some point by claiming that they are already present in women's spaces. They will use it against us, just like transwomen are doing right now.

Transwomen need to figure out how to live, given that they are not, never were and never will be, women.

That is a conversation I’d be happy to join in with. I don’t want people to be unhappy or to suffer. I also don’t want to be forced to perform acceptance of something which is not true.

Oooh @Naunet ye just got ma back up 😆

Both Russell Gp uni's, they are well-educated humans 🙂

One could draw the opposite conclusion

🙈

Out of interest - do they believe that sex is binary and not disputed, but gender is flexible, changeable and therefore less rigid?

Well I know a few trans women who wear their hair long, wear dresses and make up, women’s shoes. Carry a handbag. But obviously not all women do those things .

@SleeplessInWherever tbh, I really think that they believe, sex is not binary!

And it's this that totally confuses me!!

Being a woman is not a costume.

If they put on a cape and mask does that turn them into a superhero?

Don't be daft.
Transwomen are men.
Depending on where they are in the transformation stage as follows -
No physical changes = transvestite
Bits cut off = mutilated man

Not gonna lie - that confuses me too.

Sex is binary, gender isn’t. You can’t be sex fluid, but you can be gender fluid.

The TWAW crowd, usually mean that their gender is that of a woman, not their sex. I always assumed the biology wasn’t an argument, it was whether we should acknowledge gender identity as a deciding factor on spaces etc, rather than “just” sex.

That’s part of my confusion around the SC judgement - I didn’t realise there was an argument about sex.

yes it does in a fancy dress sense. Same as if they wear a pointy hat, cloak and broom they are a witch. The point I originally made was that trans women typically adopt behaviours/appearance typically associated with women. Pick apart my wording if it pleases you to but it still remains a fact.

Unfortunately, there has been an argument about sex. Incredible as that might sound.
For example, there's an ongoing case involving NHS Fife where a transwoman (man) declared that he had changed sex and is now biologically female!!! Some poor nurses are having to fight not to have to share a changing room with him.
At least the idea that men can change biology may at least be put to rest now with any luck.

What is woman gender? It's just a set of stereotypes?

The who point of the SC judgement was that trans identifying males (transwomen) were claiming to be female SEX for the purpose of the Equality Act single sex provisions.

They were encouraged and guided by Stonewall who misrepresented the law.