Trans women are still women 2nd thread

[beetr00]

So very important for all sides.

Just wanted to continue this interesting and somewhat "provocative" debate

Right you are not discussing in good faith.

You said what if there are only 2 spaces and no room for more, and got the answer, in that case it's women's and mixed. Then you said 'Ha! So you only care about women having single sex spaces!' like that's some kind of clever gotcha. It's not.

Women are at greater risk in mixed spaces than men are. That's established fact. Women are 9 times more likely to be assaulted in a mixed sex space than a single sex space https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html This isn't a theoretical risk, or a risk of being looked at funny, it's actual women being harmed. That is why, if there's only room for one sex to have a single sex space, it has to be women, not men. It's nothing to do with female supremacy or whatever silly idea you're trying to make work here, it's real women being harmed who wouldn't have been harmed if there was a single sex space.

Or alternatively, transpeople could respect both men and women who need a single sex space, and stop trying to take them away.

That’s obviously complicated by the fact that still doesn’t offer everyone a sex based space

well yeah but so did your ‘lets make everything mixed’ scheme

Right

well done sleepless

i am now firmly on the side of males including transwomen being in the male toilets and no working towards 3rd or 4th spaces as you reckon its too difficult

Obviously single sex places are best….but you don’t seem to like that 🤷🏻

Actually everyone here is advocating for all men to use the men’s toilets, and if they (the transwomen type) don’t like it to go and build their own. It’s what women had to do in the late 19th century, why can’t these men do the same? We aren’t their support props.
It strikes me as pure entitlement and laziness. Shock horror they’d have to put in a bit of work themselves.

And when I suggested asking her partner if he was comfortable with women in men’s spaces I got a nonsensical response. Fine for him to weigh in on women’s rights as if we care what random men think, but not his own? Odd.

Just wanted to clarify that we only advocate for single sex spaces for the one sex

A I speak for myself no one else, I am also not advocating for single sex spaces for just one sex
B when it comes to you and me there is no ‘we’

Possibly he's still reeling from the revelation that if some accident or injury should befall him and he is no longer able to shepard women through crowded places or put the bins out, he'll cease being a man.

Either that, or he's too busy laying his cloak over puddles for ladies to walk on maybe.

None of your husbands do nice things, right? God forbid a man isn’t a rapist or murderer and actually behaves reasonably.

I didn’t bother answering, because tbh your insistence on either everyone having single sex spaces or just women having them, hinges on believing that all men are dangerous or have the potential to be - and I don’t believe that.

I don’t believe that trans women should be grouped in with men who are violent, because many of them aren’t.

There are dangerous men, and there are members of the trans community who have a seedy motive. But quite why everyone else has to be grouped in with them, I don’t know/understand, and I’m yet to encounter anyone who can make that seem reasonable in any way.

I didn’t make any such “insistence”, thanks. I made it clear that I don’t consider it my job to ensure single sex spaces for men. They are perfectly able to advocate for themselves, and I broadly support them. But I don’t actually have an issue with it either way.

The comment about raping and murdering was just odd.

I’m grouping “trans women” with men, not with violent men specifically. Do you see the difference?

Please explain how we can tell which men/transwomen are dangerous, before they've harmed someone? Spoiler alert, we can't. That's why we lump people into groups.

Are you offended that you can't stay on the children's ward, if you go into hospital? Do you think the hospital is trying to say you're a potential sex offender, if they don't put you in with the children? Or do you understand that they can't tell beforehand which adults might harm children so all adults are kept out?

It was in response to someone saying “when men are raping and killing us, if there’s one sex that should have ring fenced spaces then then it’s women.” (That is paraphrased)

You then said to ask my partner.

I didn’t make that clear in my response to you.

But if my partner is just an average guy who’s not raping and killing anyone, then he’s not the reason for the separated spaces so there’s no value getting his opinion on the impact of that changing.

It’s just different types of specialist doctors tbh. My SIL is a paediatric nurse, she obviously has general medical knowledge but I’ll be honest - it’s the kids I’d ask her about.

He has a right to have a say on whether women use men’s spaces, in the same way that he doesn’t get a say on whether men use women’s spaces. It’s got zero to do with raping anyone, it’s an odd pivot. We’re not all the same person here, maybe don’t mix up different people’s posts?

But if my partner is just an average guy who’s not raping and killing anyone, then he’s not the reason for the separated spaces so there’s no value getting his opinion on the impact of that changing.

Ignoring the slightly worrying 'if' in that sentence, I'll assume that your partner is in fact a nice guy who doesn't go around raping and killing, SleeplessInWherever. In that case he is the very kind of man women don't have to worry about, because he wouldn't dream of using the women's toilets, because they are the women's toilets, and he being a decent bloke, respects that.

To that extent, although he isn't the reason for separated spaces for women, he is a valued supporter of separated spaces for women because he respects them.

If all men were nice, respectful blokes like your partner, we wouldn't be having a discussion about 'policing' or 'enforcing' women-only spaces. We could just trust men to do what they have done for yonks - stay out of women's toilets.

That's such a simple solution because it makes it easy to spot that a man in the women's toilets is by his very presence not one of those nice respectful men, like your partner is.

I was talking about men’s spaces at that time, not women’s. I’m not sure why @SleeplessInWhereverassumed I was talking about rapists.

What?

What I was asking was whether you personally think the hospital is saying you personally are a potential sex offender, when they don't allocate you a bed on the children's ward?

No, I think they’re suggesting I don’t need a children’s specialist.

I don’t believe men (or trans women) need a gynaecologist either.

If 5 children are having their appendix out and 5 adults are having their appendix out, all done by the same surgical teams, why are they on different wards?

Can't believe we still have a woman banging on that some men should be allowed in women's single sex spaces because otherwise women are just meanies.

Didn't the highest court the land just say that she is wrong?

Probably assume I’m not interested in a Disney mural?

I think we can all accept adults and children are different. But I have already said that I don’t dispute sex based fact either.

I wouldn’t be “banging on” about anything if there wasn’t some sort of group effort going on.

Unless I don’t have the right to reply to the many posts? 🤷🏻‍♀️

Yes.

A group effort to say that we are thankful that the court has seen sense and reinstated the law as it was drafted?

Of course we're pleased about it. I have no idea why you are not.

That's up to you.

You are not going to convince us that women don't need and are not legally entitled to spaces away from all men.

You'd be better off lobbying your MP to change the law rather trying to convince us on here to agree you!