Trans women are still women 2nd thread

[beetr00]

So very important for all sides.

Just wanted to continue this interesting and somewhat "provocative" debate

This

But you’re right, this is your echo chamber and some people aren’t welcome in it.

she didn’t say that

Which is usually the men’s. There’s a reason some women use them on nights out, and it’s not the decor.

Others, myself included, don’t. You “getting your own way” harms the wellbeing of others to better yours

this is honestly good news, this means that there are loads of people who will help the trans community get 3rd spaces and will join them in those 3rd spaces for further support

i am down to join if sleepless starts a movement towards this

cept i don’t think they will…

Yep, can’t argue with that….not sure why transwomen cant do that if women do but 🤷🏻

by what youve been saying everyone will be in the 3rd spaces anyway so the womens will be virtually deserted

Since most buildings aren’t equipped for that, what’s the consensus here if all spaces just become mixed?

Then everyone has equal access to the same place.

A woman is an adult human female. Female biology and chromosomes are what make a human being into the female variety.

Being a woman is not an identity or a performance. It is a physical, material reality.

Most people don't want mixed sex facilities. The reason we have single sex facilities is to protect the dignity and privacy of one's sex in situations in which the body or biological function is paramount. Especially important for female people, due to the nature of male pattern behaviour and the vulnerability of the female sex to male exploitation and abuse.

You don't need a sledgehammer to crack a nut. If people are not comfortable with the provisions for their sex, they should campaign for dedicated spaces and services...so that everyone can feel comfortable, have dignity, and feel safe.

No one rights are more important than anyone else's. That's what this judgement is confirmed. No one rights have been taken away, and no one's been given extra rights.

Transwomen were given extra privileges, not rights, which took away womens legally held rights. Now balance has been restored and everyone has the same rights. The fact that you think transwomen should have extra privileges above others, and can't see how bad faith actors might possibly use that as a loophole, is a failure of imagination on your part, because it's really very obvious. Well, it is if you consider women's actual full humans and not support animals for men with feelings.

And just because I've posted this much in the last few days, here is transwoman Fionne Orlander perfectly safe in a mens toilet. There are no recorded instances of transwomen being harmed in men's single sex spaces. None. There are quite a lot of recorded instances of women being harmed by transwomen in women's single sex spaces. But you don't care about that at all, do you?

https://www.change.org/p/boris-johnson-a-plea-for-third-spaces-for-transgender-men-and-women

😂- wait, you are being intentionally funny, aren't you?
Otherwise, what part of single-sex spaces, required by building regulations and enforced by law don't you get?

I think the gents goes mixed and the ladies stay female

to be fair this has been the case for the last few years with a fair few toilets in theatres etc but obviously it was the other way round

Obviously i would rather there were gents ladies and mixed

That’s obviously complicated by the fact that still doesn’t offer everyone a sex based space.

Third spaces probably do make the most sense, but where they’re not available someone will have to lose out.

And quite reasonably, many women think men have no legitimate claim to use female only services or facilities.

So if as the PP has suggested above, the facilities can’t always be fully separated without someone losing out.

Somewhere that only has 2 spaces, there is no 3rd, do you believe it would be acceptable for the male bathroom to be shared as long as women didn’t have to?

Because that is what that poster suggested.

I think people should use the toilet for their sex or a mixed sex toilet if available. But it’s up to men to decide if they are ok with the men’s being mixed. I am not ok with women only spaces being mixed.

Well, women don’t murder men at the rate of 2 to 3 per week (in the U.K.), as men do to us.

It is very rare that women sexually assault.

So until men stop killing and raping us, if there only 2 spaces available the women’s should be ring-fenced.

Just wanted to clarify that we only advocate for single sex spaces for the one sex. Thanks for clearing that up.

Why not ask your partner what he thinks about women in male spaces? I wouldn’t presume to answer for him.

That's because we're women. Men are perfectly free to advocate for single-sex spaces where it matters to them.

No - trans ‘women’ are not women.

I believe we should stop using the term ‘trans woman’ to refer to people who are male. I don’t think transsexuals and transvestites ever considered themselves to actually be women, then the terminology changed and suddenly men were claiming they were no different to an XX woman: hence the phrase, TWAW. It boggles my mind that anyone sincerely believes this. Extrapolating this falsehood justifies men in women only spaces of all kinds, taking women’s prizes, heading up women’s societies, etc.

I think it’s important to reverse the damage done to women’s rights by changing the language back to something that makes it clear what trans identifying people actually are (as ruled in the Supreme Court). Transsexual, trans identifying man or woman, or another description so long as it’s accurate.

The argument about women's single sex spaces being for biological women only is over.

So biological women may use the women's toilets, biological men may use the men's toilets. People with disabilities, and ONLY people with disabilities, may use the accessible toilets. That's clear enough, isn't it?

But apparently not - what about 'third spaces' ?- I'll go along with the term 'third spaces' but in fact it should be FOURTH spaces, accessible spaces are the third space, legally required under the UK Equality Act 2010 and Building Regulations Part M

What seems to be emerging from the UK SC ruling is a groundswell for these 'third spaces': we must rally round the deprived trans community to provide them with 'third spaces'.
And instead of turning their wrath on us gloating old bigots, the trans community are being encouraged using their energy to campaign for 'third spaces'.

Why?

As SleeplessInWherever correctly points out, many building are not equipped for a 'third space'.

The census figures for the number of trans people in the UK are disputed, but figures like 262,000 or 0.5% seem to be accepted. That is a very tiny 'tiny minority', as everybody describes the trans community, even the trans community.

So what justification is there for the expense and disruption of adding a 'third' [actually a fourth] space to every building - at least every public building - because 262,000 people choose not to pee in the toilet designated for their sex?

Fully agree, and I don’t really use the term where I can help it. I would only use it in inverted commas.

He’s never started murdering or raping women, so I’m not sure how helpful to this conversation about the implications of that he would be.

What? You’re making no sense at all.