"Trans women ARE biological women"

[TangenitalContrivance]

I see this argument and comment more and more the last few weeks and hugely over the last 3 days.

For example:

https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1k1tliv/trans_women_are_biological_women/

This statement, and the comments underneath it absolutely baffle me.

The approach, one that I am sure will only work with a minority of the people who said TWAW, is to undermine the definition of words, yet again, and deliberately cloud the water when it comes to speaking clearly and using terms that everyone agrees with

I have seen it said in more places than Reddit however, and by respected people

Its like a greatest hits mixed with a Christmas carol.

"They did it all in one night, every straw man, offensive intersex get out and insult"

Biological sex is not a social construct. You numpty. it's aa fact written into every single one of your cells, it's binary. one or the other. Everyone.

We had this "conversation " six years ago. Do keep up.

https://obgyn.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1479-828X.1973.tb02304.x

obgyn.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1479-828X.1973.tb02304.x

This is going to get a lot more entertaining

Reddit, the echo chamber - means bullshit is never challenged.

But what does biological reality mean? Do you understand science? Its not binary. Can you define it - so I dont have a womb at birth but other female characteristics so I am not a woman? I have XY chromosome but female genitalia so what am I? Biological sex is a number of different characteristics and processes, Just because its maybe a minority doesn't mean it doesn't matter. Its a social construct that we made up.

No peer viewed studies backing up that statement. Not even one study done. Shame on you.

Up until joining MN under a year ago, I was very much trans supporting.

Having engaged in threads and reading, I now understand how damaging this all is for us as women and the potential risks to children who follow a course they can't come back from.

Now I read Reddit threads like that you posted and I find it scary. I can never fully appreciate the internal struggle of trans people and I would never wish intentional harm. I would love to fully understand where it comes from.

My own teen is very strong in his views that it's a mental health disorder. He's Autistic and can't understand any in between thinking here. If someone I cared about said I'm trans, call me x, I'd want to respect that despite my own views ( not my own child who I'd be honest with).

I don't feel saying mental disorder is helpful or necessarily accurate and I don't feel comfortable saying that. 'Identity struggle '- that's the best I have atm to try encourage decency and not hatred, which I don't want to see either.

Basically, I have no clear language on this whole subject that conveys wanting to be decent and kind to individuals who deserve it whilst upholding strong views now that this is not a movement I want to see carry on.

Have you read the article as I can only view the abstract. If so can you provide a quote from it that says people produce both gametes

The article is from 1973 when ovotesticular disorder was stilled called true hermaphroditism. The name of this disorder was changed due to being misleading.

1973

Ha ! I wasn't here six years ago.

Is it clown fish again? Or slugs on a sex spectrum?

Something like that. I seem to remember nematodes and sponges being mentioned.

Sex is binary male or female.

If you have an sry gene and functional testosterone receptors* you are male and if not you are female

*I'm not sure whether there is consensus on the 2nd condition but it's the definition of sex used by Prof Robert Winston

I’m sure it’s all very complicated and there’s no way a bunch of crusty old mums could understand it. We only know about nappies and laundry.

Its a social construct that we made up.

No, it's a strategy evolution came up with to ensure genetic diversity.

I rather suspect you weren't old enough to buy a pint six years ago.

Never mind, you're here now and have been told that you're wildly misinformed.

What you do with that information is up to you, but you're flogging a dead horse here. We've had a fair few rodeos with the 'but intersex' gambit and we know perfectly well it's both irrelevant and pish.

We all know what the truth is, however, no need to gloat after the ruling. They have had a massive shock with this ruling, they have been told the government lied to them, for years. They are in a particularly vulnerable state now, those people. Let us all stop gloating.

Sex is binary and immutable. I found this a good explainer, from Developmental Biologist, Emma Hilton: From humans to asparagus, females are females – FondOfBeetles

Also, the Supreme Court have just said the same. Para 171 here : For Women Scotland Ltd (Appellant) v The Scottish Ministers (Respondent)

The definition of sex in the EA 2010 makes clear that the concept of sex is binary, a person is either a woman or a man.

So after years of being called bigots and receiving rape threats and threats of violence women are not allowed to celebrate but should remain meek and quiet in case we upset the men that made those threats

Those Reddits were wild.

There’s a person saying Richard Dawkins “doesn’t know anything about science and sides with Catholic fundamentalists.”

The reinforcements from the University of Reddit are truly here ladies! Thank goodness. I can go back to cleaning and baking now, phew. Thanks guys!

Just go back to FWR around 2018-2020, all archived, when people came here and said what you're saying every ruddy week. It'll be quicker for you.

We no longer have to bother to argue with you because the Supreme Court has ruled that sex=biology=male XY and female XX.

If you have a problem with that, form a lobby group, get a case together, have a crowdfunder and fight for six years to establish that sex is a social construct. That's what FWS did. I look forward to watching the hearing and seeing Naomi Cunningham and Michael Foran doing their thing.

Well other experts dont agree - there is more to it than simply saying a male sry gene makes you male. It just comes back to a definition which we made up.