"Trans women ARE biological women"

[TangenitalContrivance]

I see this argument and comment more and more the last few weeks and hugely over the last 3 days.

For example:

https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1k1tliv/trans_women_are_biological_women/

This statement, and the comments underneath it absolutely baffle me.

The approach, one that I am sure will only work with a minority of the people who said TWAW, is to undermine the definition of words, yet again, and deliberately cloud the water when it comes to speaking clearly and using terms that everyone agrees with

I have seen it said in more places than Reddit however, and by respected people

Ooh, this gives me an opportunity to pull out one of very favourites

I don't support the trans movement. It's dangerous imo going forward, for women, biological women especially.

I do however see there will be some who will feel vulnerable and afraid on some level. My own sense is that a huge proportion of this population are Autistic. Therefore, already feeling marginalised and vulnerable. I doubt people on here want to see people intentionally afraid and harmed.

The glee or gloating is over the fact women's lives are going to be totally upended by this movement in horrible ways if it continues as it has been into the realms of near insanity. I don't want that. And plenty of men who want to be women will happily continue to trample us women to death in pursuit of this ideology.

That part, we do not want it. That's all this is.

Which experts and are they as expert as Robert Winston

I don't know those other experts, do they go to another school?

How many years have we been in this fight?
How many women have lost careers, friends, positions of influence, reputations?
How many young people have been pushed down a damaging medical pathway?

If we want to celebrate the clarification of the law, we’re damned well entitled to do so.

That sounds uncomfortable, all those feathers. Cuter than pubic hair, though, perhaps.

Well other experts dont agree

This is a bit like shooting fish in a barrel, but our old chums in the Socialist Workers Party have published a pamphlet on trans liberation which flatly says Lord Winston is wrong about sex being encoded in every cell of your body.

The expert they cite? Shon Faye.

'Expert' doing a LOT of heavy lifting there. Expert in what, shit hot takes and mansplaining?

Oh shit, I had no idea.

Reconsidering everything.

Their former comrade Dickie Seymour has also been holding forth on genetics and chromosomes. He's got an ology, you know.

Okay, it's sociology...

They’re not though. Scientifically their chromosomes define biological sex

It shows. You are bringing the same arguments that were presented here all those years ago and which were systematically shot down with links from peer reviewed scientific (and accepted by experts) papers.

I highly recommend you do a bit more reading before making more of these statements. It might save you some embarrassment.

Where was all this mumbo jumbo about sex being an incredibly difficult concept during the zillions of years that women were being excluded from universities, government, property holding, voting and so on, and in many places still are? And how, if it's so complicated and difficult, do the TRAs know which spaces are the female ones? And how do they know, having identified these spaces, which group of people they want to sit down and shut up for which other group of people?

Absolutely none of that means biological sex is a social construct, or indeed has anything to do with trans people.

That made me laugh, too. Almost as mysterious as the way so many scientists accept evolution and gravity 🤔

Ha one expert says it so it must be true. Biology is not binary - we tell ourselves this because its two nice neat categories. Predominately based on you are male or other.

No.

So you believe that you know better than the UKs leading expert on human reproduction

Predominately based on you are male or other.

You've jumped the shark here. Other??

In biology overall, sex is not defined by chromosomes or hormonal profiles or genitalia or fondness for lipstick. Male = producer of small motile gametes. Female = producer of large immotile gametes. Two sexes. That's it.

In mammals, the sex you become is determined at conception and thereafter is immutable. Very occasionally, there are anomalies in meiosis or in subsequent embryonic development which can lead to VSDs/DSDs. Or sometimes, other conditions can cause changes in the reproductive system. This does not negate the fact that sex is binary. Furthermore, DSDs are against either a male or female background.

Regardless of the wordcloudy obfuscation, none of this is relevant to whether persons-of-gender are entitled to invade the opposite sex's spaces. I would put good money on a bet that only the tiniest minutest minusculest percentage of persons-of-gender are in possession of any of the obfuscatory whataboutery conditions that we're being snowed with. But I would be happy for those making extraordinary claims to deserve access to medically prove their qualification: are they?

I'm not gloating. Me and many other women are fucking furious. Furious that we had to fight all this shite and furious that now we've been proven right, self righteous wee arseholes are recycling arguments from years ago (I mean, an article from 1973, what the fuck) and we're having to do the whole tedious bullshite again, lest we be accused of 'gloating'.

We've pandered to this bullshit for far too long.

That. You cannot change your sex, if you are born a woman or a man (not intersex which is different), you remain a biological woman or man.

You may have treatment and/or surgery to 'become' the opposite sex and it's fine to call yourself, and live as, that but the fact remains that you are biologically as you were born.

I think you're being unfair to the TRA movement. They've long since outgrown mumbo jumbo and risen to the level of mumbo pocus.

This one killed me as well… them wondering why an evolutionary biologist would not agree with their stance.

like - are you serious? They are so far removed from reality

Gravity can be mathmatically modelled - it doesn’t work at extremes. I can tell you how fast I can fall off a building - but at micro scales it doesnt work. We don’t understand gravity fully. Only in the general sense.