"Trans women ARE biological women"

[TangenitalContrivance]

I see this argument and comment more and more the last few weeks and hugely over the last 3 days.

For example:

https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1k1tliv/trans_women_are_biological_women/

This statement, and the comments underneath it absolutely baffle me.

The approach, one that I am sure will only work with a minority of the people who said TWAW, is to undermine the definition of words, yet again, and deliberately cloud the water when it comes to speaking clearly and using terms that everyone agrees with

I have seen it said in more places than Reddit however, and by respected people

I have read the articles and they do not say what you are asserting. If you think they do, put the specific quote here.

You can't because it doesn't say that.

Then why don't you understand how the sex of people with DSDs is determined?

https://study.com/academy/lesson/hermaphrodites-in-biology-definition-examples.html#:~:text=Can%20a%20hermaphrodite%20have%20both,systems%20at%20the%20same%20time.

People are not hermaphrodites

This is what the article you linked to says

But on that link, the bit you’ve highlighted isn’t about humans. Literally the next paragraph confirms it doesn’t apply to humans? Did you read the full page….?

Extract attached here.

Here we go again, but intersex. Yes some people have a dsd, some people with xy chromosomes develop along the female pathway. Some people with xx develop along the male pathway. Some people have xxy or variations but again they develop along one pathway or another. They may not fully develop so end up infertile or without functioning genitalia, they may have other issues too but every person with a dsd can be categorized as either male or female. Occasionally it is categorized incorrectly at birth, mainly in less developed countries.

To any lurkers, note that the fragrant Hasten is moving goalposts all over the place. Initially claiming that people can be hermaphrodites with functioning ovaries and testes able to produce both types of gametes. Then when challenged switching to just the existence of ovotesticular conditions (whereby only one type of gamete can be produced). Then switching again to hermaphroditism in other species.

Incorrect link posted, copy and paste the below

Yes, in the specific case of individuals with "true hermaphroditism" (now often referred to as ovotesticular disorder of sex development), they can have both functioning testes and ovaries. This means they have both testicular and ovarian tissues, which may be in separate gonads or combined within the same gonad (ovotestis

Anyone who is interested can do their own research, it’s all out there

Please post the link to that quote

Can you provide a link to this quote please. I'd like to see if it actually says what you say it does

It's just unfortunate that you can't actually provide a link to any of it

Furthermore, to any lurkers:

Say, hypothetically, these special hermaphroditic humans did exist. They would not ipso facto be trans-identified. They’d just be people with a particular condition of the gonads.

Therefore their existence would have nothing to say with regard to whether a male human with a magic gender could demand access to women’s spaces.

If any male human with a magic gender wanted to demand access to women’s spaces on the basis of hermaphroditism, then bring on the medical testing, I say. We shall soon find out what %age of people-of-gender are “really” special hermaphrodites; I’d suggest asymptotically close to 0%

If it is (for humans) then surely you can provide a quick link to it.

Patience, give Hasten time to ask on Reddit.

People are not hermaphrodites.
From Hasten's actual linked site.

I don't understand this. Only a few years ago, their whole argument was that sex and gender are different things, and being trans meant they didn't match up.

Now is that sex and gender are the exact same thing, sex doesn't actually exist, and you're a bigot if you think otherwise.

The rhetoric has changed so much that even super supportive people from 10 years ago are now considered transphobes.

Like, this ruling draws a clear line between sex and gender in relation to the equality act. 10 years ago that would be great for trans rights, as a trans man for example can still be subject to discrimination in the basis of sex. But now its somehow the opposite?

How can anyone keep up?

In 100 years or so if an archaeologist dug up their skeleton, would he describe it as male or female? Ummmm ……

Biological sex is a social construct. Its not you have a penis therefore you are a man, its much more complex - chromosomes, hormones, sex determine genes. Some people, a small number, have some and not the other - so what are they? Binary biological sex is therfore an idea in which we categorise the two groups - admittedly a dominant idea - but its still a social construct. Biology is complex and humans like to simplify and categorise things.

Sex is not a social construct its a biological reality

No, it really isn't. Because what you are trying to claim does not exist.

Jesus, it's like we went through a portal back into 2016

Looks like reinforcements from the University of Reddit have arrived

I'm invoking Germaine:

I don't care.

And if you aren't one of the minuscule number of people for whom this might possibly be a grey area, what are you doing wasting women's time bottoming out this afternoon?

We legislate for the majority, the standard: hard cases make bad law. But as I say, if you really want to pursue this Jolyon Maugham and the Good Law Project and Robin Moira White are your experts. Take it to them. They'll take your money.

Two sets of gametes, plenty of variation in bodily appearance within the two categories, and a host of disorders which only apply to one or the other of those groups and therefore confirm the binary.

And precisely none of this is anything to do with the entitled, whining, aggressive bastards who want into women's spaces despite being - almost exclusively - totally biologically normal males.

Nice try though.