"Trans women ARE biological women"

[TangenitalContrivance]

I see this argument and comment more and more the last few weeks and hugely over the last 3 days.

For example:

https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1k1tliv/trans_women_are_biological_women/

This statement, and the comments underneath it absolutely baffle me.

The approach, one that I am sure will only work with a minority of the people who said TWAW, is to undermine the definition of words, yet again, and deliberately cloud the water when it comes to speaking clearly and using terms that everyone agrees with

I have seen it said in more places than Reddit however, and by respected people

Some can

Yes… some mammals aren’t obviously dimorphic, but they are all male or female with a pair needed for reproduction.
The issue of dimorphism is relevant to humans because the differences in our physicality impacts on issues such as sports, VAGWG etc.

Some can, look it up, All info is easily accessible with a quick search

The burden of proof lies with the person making the claim aka Russell's Teapot

Yes… some mammals aren’t obviously dimorphic, but they are all male or female

Incorrect

In biology, a hermaphrodite can have both male and female reproductive organs, allowing it to produce both male and female gametes. This is also known as bisexuality in organisms. Some hermaphrodites, like simultaneous hermaphrodites, have both reproductive systems at the same time, while others, like sequential hermaphrodites, can change sex during their lifetime

Surely the people who are intersex or have a dsd need their own categories and spaces? Surely if you genuinely had those issues not being able to use the ladies toilet is the least of your issues? All the people I’ve seen on the news and social media protesting about this are just trans, they don’t have these medical issues.

Read at all my previous comments, I have provided enough links
Everything I have said is easily accessible to all on the net
The level of ignorance is quite astounding

I assumed everyone knew of this condition, it really surprises me that they don’t

Humans cannot.

It’s quite a rare condition but I think they can probably choose which ‘gender’ they would prefer to be aligned to, most I assume have a preference for one or the other but maybe I’m wrong

I know that people can (in very rare cases) have ovotestes, but there has never been a documented case in a human where they can produce both eggs and sperm. Like I said, it is theoretically possible if you had a case of a chimera, but it has never been observed. In any event, transwomen are healthy males and not people with DSDS.

Humans can’t. And we are concerned with humans.

No, you've made a claim (human beings who have fully functioning ovaries and testicles, simultaneously) which isn't stated in the links you've given and you've told other posters to look it up when this has been pointed out. As I said, the burden of proof is on you.

And you're surprised that people don't know your (claimed but not evidenced) details of a very, very rare DSD? What, really?

You haven't provided any links to anything that states that humans can produce both gametes.

Once again - Ovotesticular disorder does not produce both functioning ovaries and testicles. The individual concerned may produce eggs or (much, much less likely) may produce sperm but never both, either concurrently or sequentially.

None of the 500 or so reported cases of this (ever) have ever produced both.

If you genuinely don't know this, pick up a biology textbook.

Alex Mills' 'The Biology of Sex' or SOMETHING. No developmental biologist or textbook will tell you that human has ever produced both eggs and sperm. They will, if they cover the topic, tell you explicitly the opposite.

You are picking up individual articles on the internet, misreading them and taking umbridge at being corrected.

A little bit of knowledge is a very dangerous thing.

No.

they have a sex. A very clearly and easily discovered one. All people with DSDs have a definite, sexual. One of two and only two.

Jesus! they absolutely can, all the information is out there, inform yourself before coming out with such statements

If women ( I myself am one ) are going to argue their case, you need to have the correct facts….that’s all I’m trying to prove

BTW, I was very happy with the outcome from a few days ago, the nonsense had to end

No they absolutely do not, look it up and get your facts straight, all info is readily available to all

We know about ovotesticular syndrome.

However, we do not know of any individual having fully functioning ovaries and testicles, and I believe you have not understood the articles you have linked to.

@Hastentoadd do you know what an SRY gene is

Blimey: are we in a time warp? We dealt with this crap in 2019-2020, surely? Where's Fond of Beetles when you need her to explain why hermaphroditism in humans is an impossibility?

The Supreme Court says two sexes, XX and XY, female and male, immutable. Go and brief Robin Moira White and Jolyon Maugham to take your case to the European Court of Human Rights with your hermaphrodite argument and have it thrown out in a few years if you want.

As everyone has said. The burden of proof is on you.

However. All DSDs are male or female. All of them. Every time.

I totally agree with the decision but there might be some grey areas for a very small percentage of people which need to be bottomed out

Reddit now claim the phrase “single sex spaces” does not exist and was invented by Kemi Badenoch

https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1k20l0a/can_we_stop_using_terf_rhetoric/

in 2024

Yes,
Whats your point

“Yup and it's how people should be talking about this ruling too. Because the definitions set for "biological sex" are unclear and doesn't necessarily exclude pre/non-op trans women on HRT from being considered women, for example. What matters now is the guidance, legislation and case law that's going to made in the next few years and we have to fight to bring it in line with reality”