"Trans women ARE biological women"

[TangenitalContrivance]

I see this argument and comment more and more the last few weeks and hugely over the last 3 days.

For example:

https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1k1tliv/trans_women_are_biological_women/

This statement, and the comments underneath it absolutely baffle me.

The approach, one that I am sure will only work with a minority of the people who said TWAW, is to undermine the definition of words, yet again, and deliberately cloud the water when it comes to speaking clearly and using terms that everyone agrees with

I have seen it said in more places than Reddit however, and by respected people

Perhaps the tantrum identified as an educational visit?

I'd forgotten about that massive red flag.
What an absolute entitled cock he is.

Or basic biology.

So is he delusional, need more training or lying?

He's done his career wonders you have to say. Probably going into the history books along side Louise Carlill vs Carbolic smoke ball Co and May Donoghue vs Mr Stevenson.(snail in ginger beer)

And I've only just realised it was WOMEN who were the wee people in those cases!!!

That's the exact argument Dr Beth Upton used.

Don’t give it any credence or any weight, it’s just another set of words to argue black is white, up is down etc

Look, let's be fair, I'm all for testing a theory.

Take cheek swabs of, say, 100 people. A mix of men and women, including those who identify as trans, and including some who have undergone surgery/take hormones etc. etc. Any proportions you like - no need to be 50/50 men vs women or anything predictable like that.

Keep a record of which swabs come from which individuals, their sex as recorded on their original birth certificate and their gender identity as reported in each case. Assign each person a number and write it on the corresponding swab.

Give the numbered swabs to a lab to test 'blind'. Don't tell them how many of the 100 fall into each category and certainly don't tell them which swabs relate to each person. Ask the lab to report back the sex of each sample - writing it against the sample number on each case. They may also flag any samples they feel are ambiguous and could do with further testing.

Put the results into a table and add back in the columns of sex on original birth certificate and reported gender identity for each swab.

Every person making the claim the OP sets out in the OP - and every person refuting it - can then be invited to guess how many of the test results will match sex at birth vs how many will match gender identity. They can also be invited to bet a sum of money against their guess.

Like a fun sort of 'guess how many sweets in the jar' for Easter!

All proceeds to be split between correct guessers to donate to the charity of their choice.

Yes?

I wonder what the results will be!

Come on TRAs, keep up - the whole reason you switched tactic to legal sex being more important than biological sex was because you weren't convincing anyone with this nonsense.

I'm exhausted at the thought of going back to the days of these sorts of gotchas - "what about women who don't/can't have children, women who've had a hysterectomy, or chemo that's destroyed all their eggs, women who've had mastectomies, women on HRT- are you going to tell my poor lovely sister that on top of her cancer/infertility that she's actually not a woman at all??!!"

And we all know chromosomes are irrelevant because literally no one even knows what their chromosomes are. Also, very rare medical conditions. And fucking clownfish.

Feels like we're destined to be stuck in an eternal doomloop of idiocy. But at least for the moment this idiocy is confined to social media, and is no longer ambiguous in the actual law.

Having given Reddit a day to fill up their reasons why they are biological women - I am stunned they can operate a keyboard. One of them thinks he has an actual fully fledged vagina.

It really does bring it home to you how they think a vagina is just a sex hole, rather than an intelligent, sophisticated part of the female reproductive system.

What like their mothers? 😂

I felt like this previously, but do you know what, every time the cycle restarts, less and less people are inside it.

When we were here in 2019 the balance was different, most media was captured and most website restricted discussion.

It's different now.

"I note the warning that Mumsnet is reading their thread (😱 how dare we) and the need to ‘stay safe’"

Safe from what exactly? Reality?

Saw this on Twitter and it's bang on -

'To use an analogy that is perhaps inappropriate, but I can't think of another, this feels like having finally walked out on an abusive relationship, ie the most dangerous time. Men are furious and the misogyny in response to this ruling is white hot. Buckle up for the backlash.'

https://x.com/GappyTales/status/1913109130232881254

The footstamping tantrums we're currently seeing on MN is a part of that backlash.

The Reddit trans subs can be highly entertaining. The science denial is amazing at times, it's like Catholics believing in transubstantiation. They talk about having periods, they now cry at the drop of a hat, how hormones have miraculously changed them into females. My personal favourite is one TIM who was taking oestrogen said his pelvic bones had "rotated and widened" 😆.

I’ve seen posts like this as well. I feel like it shows a complete disregard for the rights of biological women. I have sympathy for trans people and I feel like they deserve to be treated with respect, but what has been going on in recent years is absolutely crazy.

There is possibly going to be an attack of illegal abuse images again tonight then.

Not because of that link of course. But just the general temper tantrum that gets aimed here for the world's wrongs.

I saw someone on LinkedIn claiming to be a an HR professional in a senior role using the analogy of a child changing its favourite colour and parents insisting “no you’ve always liked green”. And her colleagues are supposed to take her seriously and listen to her advice?

the “arguments” from this side are bizarre and incoherent

on a side note, I noticed in the judgement that the Supreme Court commented on the cogency of the submissions from the KC for FWS

It is absolutely nothing like Catholics believing in transubstantiation. Saying that you think it does just flags that you have no idea what the concept of transubstantiation is meant to express. Clue: it's more like quantum physics than biology or chemistry.

The Reddit trans subs are amazing. They can't get past this idea that cross sex hormones will, if you take them for long enough, replace all the male cells in your body with female cells.

By the transitive factor, eating lots of KFC will turn you into a chicken.

I don’t know why but I’m shocked at the outpouring on my Facebook feed. I’m on a women’s special interest group and there’s a transgender woman on there posting looking for sympathy and assurance she’s welcome. There’s about 200 comments of support. An old colleague who has numerous degrees and a phd is posting about how the ruling is wrong because they’ve got the science wrong referencing intersex people.

@DeanElderberry

Do you mean metaphysics, not quantum physics?

Um…and they know that MNers are reading their thread how exactly? Oh no! Must mean they’re reading our thread! Should we panic about ‘staying safe’ or….hm no, I think I’ll just laugh like a drain at that one.😂

whats that quote though …'Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.' literary violence….

Seconded

I spent the last few days in hospital with my dd who was had an emergency operation. It is a maternity hospital and she was in one of the gynecology wards. I met lots of women in there of every age, size and shape imaginable, but not one of them was a trans woman, I wonder why?

I haven't seen so many attempted DSD gotchas for years. I haven't needed to use the old some people are born with only one leg or only one functioning eye. That indicates that something went wrong during their development, probably a result of a genetic glitch. It doesn't mean that the bipedal, binocular human blueprint needs to be thrown away explainer for yonks, but I've had to wheel it out at least three times in the last 24 hours.