Is there any future you'd accept for trans people?

[AYoungTransWoman]

Hello, I'm a young trans person who transitioned in my teens. I've been on hormones my entire adult life, have a GRC and will have Gender Reassignment Surgery imminently.

Is there any future you would accept for people like me who have gone through everything?

And Rachel Dolezal felt her natural authentic self should be black.

There was so much outrage about her appropriation, there's even a documentary about her.

It speaks to how entrenched in our society misogyny is that no one turns a hair about men appropriating womanhood despite the patriarchal oppression that women face daily.

So there will be lots of women who wish you well and say they don't mind what you are doing. However it is the very societal pressure that forces women to always give, to always care, to always budge up and make space (that you as a man will never experience) that leads to many of those women saying that.

Personally I don't think it's okay for you to steal from women, i think you should work harder on your mental health issues. As a man you are punching down because it gives you relief, and i think that's immoral.

Yes but you don't speak for me either. The point of my reply was to a PP who said they'd never met someone IRL with a different view to them. Don't twist it into something it wasn't.

❤

I feel sad for you that you feel you need surgery.
it will fuck your health and sex life (assuming you want sex in the future)

I would hope you respect that women have protected spaces because of systemic sexism and lack of safety for men. I would hope you wouldn’t try to force or trick women into relationships with you, or physical examinations (NHS) like smears etc without checking if you would need them as a trans woman, and that you are kind and fair to us which is likely how most women treat you now and later.
I would hope you don’t think you are a ‘special’ woman and therefore more superior to women. But I wish you well, and you can make peace with who you are and have a good life.

And you dont see the problem for young girls to be alone in public toilets with men?

When I was at university in Brighton in the 90s there were plenty of gender bending men. Not one of them claimed to actually have the right to be in women's single sex spaces.

I'm as left leaning as you get, I have an academic background.

I 100% don't believe that women's rights should be eroded in favour of trans identifying males.

I can't quite believe that there are young women who believe that this is what 'being kind' is?

The MRAs really have done a job here.

Every male should be free to express himself however he wishes. In the way they did in the 90s when I lived in Brighton, when it was not unusual for men to wear makeup and still be men. I dated a man who had long hair, wore eyemake up and nail varnish. He was as sexy as fuck. But he never claimed it was a lesbian relationship.

What the actual fuck has gone wrong in the last 30 years.

I'm so saddened by this.

Because women get death and rape threats if they try. Men in general don’t.

Never said I did, but whether you are fine with males using the women’s loos is neither here nor there. A lot of women aren’t fine with it.

Great though that you haven’t seen any anti trans posts.

Sex segregation.

There are a lot of women who dont see vulnerable women and girls.

I think this is the issue, right here.

But it is getting worse.

I really struggle in shared cubicles. Heavy periods mean a real clean up operation for me but if I put my bag on the floor so I can reach what I need, it gets covered in pee. I have to make sure no part of my clothing touches the floor while trying to roll them down far enough that I can do what I need to or get changed without anything touching the floor or the back of my shoes which have also now touched the pee. Ughhhh.

Unisex toilets and changing rooms take up a lot more space than traditional spaces.

Meaning that to mitigate for the men who will not tolerate the idea of women only spaces, facilities have to be removed.

This info is so important when discussing consent. In order to give informed consent for surgery, the OP and anyone else considering genital surgery in pursuit of an elusive happier state needs to understand that 87%. They need to understand the impact that incontinence would have on their ability to work, socialise and build close relationships. They need to acknowledge the impact of never experiencing orgasm. They need to consider the significant impact on their health, and they need to be chrystal clear that they aren’t selecting a perfect stylish vagina as if from a catalogue. They are opting for a crude apology of an orifice that at best will be a pouch others can ejaculate in. At worst, it will be painful, ugly, smelly and need a lot of care.

And if they stick their fingers in their ears, and pretend it won’t happen to them, they are not truly considering the risks and making an informed, balanced decision. In my professional opinion, no one can genuinely give informed consent for such mutilating surgery.

I don’t know any women prisoners but I still support their rights to not be locked up with (often sex offending) males. I haven’t had to use a rape counselling service but I support women to be able to access women only services. I’m not Muslim but I support Muslim women in being able to swim in women only pool sessions. I’m not an elderly woman but I support their rights to be cared for and treated by women on a women’s ward. I’m not disabled but support disabled women in their rights to request women only intimate care.

None of my friends are in those situations either I believe, but I support women that are in less privileged scenarios than myself.

Are you ‘hating on’ mumsnetters?

Perfectly put 👏

Quite. All of this.

Why would you have single 'gender' provision? I assume you mean single sex?

The toilet in a cafe will be completely enclosed and contain a sink. Many places need more than one toilet, and single sex provision takes up less space because no requirement for floor to ceiling cubicles and sink space can be shared.

Whether you like it or not many places simply don't have the space for everyone to change in cubicles without significantly reducing capacity. Space efficient single sex provision plus unisex cubicles for those who need it seems like a good compromise.

And boys have to go in the men’s?

And where do trans people go?

You're revealing your motives here you know. No one objects to young boys with their mothers. But after a certain age they should be in the mens.

Trans people should be in the facilities that correspond with their biological sex.

And how many are privileged enough to not have to be concerned? To not feel distress or fear at find a male person in a place that they don’t expect it, to have to undress with a male present, to have to decide whether to play sport with male people presenting a safety risk or making the sport unfair, to have to be enclosed in a prison with a male person, or be on a ward with a male person, or in a rape crisis group with a male person and so on.

How many of the women of your acquaintance have female children that they are concerned about?

“they’re just not bothered and don’t actually engage in the whole debate at all.”

Really? Or they understand that they shouldn’t speak to you about it?

That’s not a problem for women to solve. There’s no evidence that trans women (males) are at risk of being attacked in the male toilets/changing rooms.

What motives?

So, boys are allowed in up to a certain age? What age would that be? And what about girls with their fathers? Where do they go?

And are you seriously saying trans women should have to go in men’s toilets and trans men have to go in the women’s?