Lesbian mistaken for trans woman in woman's bathroom in Arizona

[Christinapple]

https://www.advocate.com/news/lesbian-mistaken-transgender-arizona-walmart

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/masculine-looking-cis-woman-confronted-by-cops-in-walmart-restroom-kalaya-morton-demands-justice-video/ar-AA1AdWpn

But I thought people "can always tell"?

It also led to the irony the only males in the bathroom were two male police officers who were notified by a store employee who mistakenly thought a male had entered the woman's toilets.

"In an alarming incident at a Tucson, Arizona Walmart, 19-year-old Kalaya Morton*, a Black cisgender lesbian, was confronted by two male sheriff’s deputies while using the women’s restroom, sparking outrage and a demand for accountability.
Morton, who identifies as masculine-presenting or a “stud,” recounted the humiliating encounter that occurred when a store employee erroneously assumed she was a transgender woman. The saga began innocuously enough: Morton had entered the restroom with her ex-girlfriend, who was kindly handing her a tampon— an act of friendship that, unfortunately, soon spiraled into something far more troubling. In an exclusive interview with The Advocate, Morton detailed her shock when the two deputies barged in, shining flashlights into the restroom stall.

“You have to get out of here. You have to come out. We need to talk to you.” Imagine trying to pee in peace, only to have the police storm in like it’s an episode of Cops: Restroom Edition.
“I’m still using the restroom. I’m sitting down, I’m peeing. What is the issue?,” Morton incredulously told the deputies as she sat there.
Now, while most people hope for a streamlined bathroom experience, Morton was treated more like a suspect than a bathroom user. The deputies apparently needed to crack the case of “Who Looks Like a Man in the Ladies’ Room,” a particularly absurd mystery, if you ask us."

I would have replied soon, but I was out getting my hair cut, at the local barbers.

I think you and I probably agree on the value of a good sense of humour, a bit of pragmatism, and a sharp haircut

Are you just ignoring the vulnerability of an innocent black woman having the police called on her, in a country with such high rates of police violence towards black people?

😁

My very logical response (so much so that I suspect you know this already) is...

In this particular circumstance, I've no idea - I wasn't there. I can hypothesise, as people have, that this was an attempt to safeguard women against what appeared to be an unknown man, with the additional reassurances of the police call having been logged, and the attending officers greeted and probably escorted by the caller, all of which would provide additional safeguards offsetting any risk presented by the police officers to make it self-evidently worth "inviting them in" to check on an unknown random male entering a private female space (as perceived).

In more general terms, though, "invite" is a bizarre word, and I'd see no logic to it at all. I honestly doubt the police would RSVP to a gilded card. 😁 "Accept the necessity of male officers, if female officers weren't available, to prevent a potentially far greater harm" would be a more "logical" alternative to this.

Unless one were being disingenuous, of course.

I don't object to the emergency services responding to an incident in a public space, no. Would you like to answer to my question? Do you object to all males in female spaces, or just the police doing their jobs?

This wasn't an incident - what was the crime that occured (an actual crime please) that justified them attending inside the facilities? You're acting like they were in there saving a life.
I'm objecting to all males in female facilities - why aren't you?

I think there is an interesting point to be made about feminist perspectives on clothing.

On the one hand I'm very much 'clothes are clothes', wear what you want, men can wear skirts etc. I would like to think that I would be fine with any female in the women's toilets, regardless of how they looked or presented.

However, on the other hand it's not true is it? Clothes aren't just clothes, or there wouldn't be a multi-billion pound industry selling them. They can signal all kinds of things about us- social status, wealth, eco-consciousness, musical taste. So people, including me, do use these visual clues as a guide to who we are dealing with.

So, I guess for me, absolutely use the women's toilets if you are a female who has made themselves look very masculine, you have as much right as me to do so. But don't get annoyed if I do a double-take or if you get politely challenged. That's me keeping myself safe, and that's ok too.

Maybe these thoughts make me a bad feminist though.

So to clarify you are okay with males entering a female facility when no crime has occured or been reported as long as they are dressed as police officers? And you're okay with one singular woman consenting to that access on all the other women's behalves?

If you were in the female toilets and there was a man in there, would you prefer another female person to try to remove that man just in case you happened to have to wash your knickers out?

There wasn't a man though was there? That's the issue. Until the two male police officers went in. I don't want police officers in the loos because someone wasn't dressed feminine enough. O particularly don't want black women being harassed by male police in the toilets.

LOVE this 😂🥰

It is an insult, which is why you chose to use it. You seem to have lost the ability to comprehend what actually happened. The police officers were responding to a call of a male in the female toilets. Would you expect them to stand outside and ask nicely - “please could the man in the toilets come out, we can’t come in because someone might be washing their knickers out”.
You sound ridiculous.

Ooh, TERF!

I wonder, if @Helpmelosemymind found themselves on fire in a single sex space and a male firefighter came in, would Help tell them to fuck off out of there and send in the female firefighter?

‘I honestly doubt the police would RSVP to a gilded card’ 😂😂

I am enjoying this thread so much, you cannot beat intelligent, informed, articulate women 🥰

Q- is it ok for male police to enter the women's bathroom based on someone thinking a man had entered, shouldn't they at least send in female officers?

Yes.
They are officers of the law. I believe even in the US they announce their presence and purpose (official business) when entering single sexed spaces.
Where there is a suspicion of a crime taking place OF COURSE which ever police officers are present should go in. What would you expect us to say - that no, if someone is being murdered, mugged or raped in a single sex space then noone can intervene in an official capacity unless they are same sexed? JFC.

What's insulting about it?

Exactly so the police weren't actually responding to a crime were they ? So where was the justification to harass a black woman in the toilets and how do we prevent this happening?
You and PP sound ridiculous that you can't answer the logic of either there needs to be female officers on attendance if they're going to access female spaces without a legitimate reason or how we allow GNC women to use the toilet without everyone policing their femininity.

😂😂

Do you actually know how policing works? If someone dials 999 and says that there’s a person in their house brandishing a gun, do you think the police would just pop along, knock politely on the door and ask nicely that if there’s a gunman could they please come out?

oh that’s nice. So much compassion for fellow women isn’t it. Better not look masculine anymore. Never mind the whole feminist take that you should look however you want.

Now what will you do when a transman decide to use the women’s toilet. A transman with full in beard, muscles etc….

Because they ought to be able use the women's right?

No males in women's public toilets. Here in the UK, we don't mind small boys up to 8 years old, or male cleaners, provided we have been warned.

Assuming this actually happened....
The police were called to remove a man from the single sex toilets at this establishment. Male officers were sent, I would hazard a guess, because it was a man, and men are stronger than women.

The police arrived, confronted the "man" and found she was just a butch woman. Embarrassing and infuriating for the woman, but no real harm done.
The blackness is irrelevant. Her being a lesbian is irrelevant. The reason the police were called was because this woman was thought to be a man.

End of story.

Yes. They’re female so they can use female spaces. What would you expect to happen?
However, I doubt very much that such a situation would occur because a female who goes to such lengths of conforming to perceived standards of maleness would be unlikely to then go into a public female space as that would instantly mean they’d misgendered themselves. Which would be literal murder.

You don't need to be hyperbolic KFC - where did I say that? But this wasn't an instance of someone being murdered or raped as I replied to PP - this wasn't them attending to an actual report of a crime - so why are you okay with male police officers in single sexed spaces?

Presumably you support the police being called to establish they are indeed a trans man

Speaking as a lesbian this experience would have made me feel extremely shit

many posters here, me included, have consistently said we are not about keeping women out of women's spaces, and that includes transmen.

Having said that. If Buck Angel waltzed into a women's toilet that i was using for sure i would ask if they were sure they were in the right place. Buck Angel, from what I've seen, would say something like "sure, I'm a biological woman". I have no issue with that.