Mumsnet listed as Anti-Trans

[Hoosemover]

there a list of organisations and Mumsnet is on it. Along with the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

x.com/twisterfilm/status/1888255119449268674?s=61

<Duly adds "rude" to the list of "language evolves" words that has changed in meaning>

See now this is classic dehumanisation @Helleofabore , reducing all trans people and people who support their rights to criminals who maim young distressed girls. Nevermind using a collective noun, THIS is real dehumanisation, designed to make the group of people they are referring to as wrong, evil, other, so that people don't feel guilty treating them badly.

Care to have a word? Since you have such a strong position against dehumanisation? Please be inclusive and lecture this poster about dehumanisation, or is it only when people who aren't in line with your views use terms you don't like thay you feel the need to correct their behaviour?

Good lord thats a stretch…

You’re exactly what I expected too, unsurprisingly.

Can’t say who the bad people are, avoiding most counter questions/points put to you, failing to provide any examples of ‘taking the piss out of trans people’, failing to explain what the right side of history entails.

YOU make it make sense.

@SailorSerena ok then - how about the ones who "yeet the teats" off young girls - those bad guys? Sorry, I meant to say wonderful caring people who are most definitely OTRSOH

not all feminists are GC

All feminists are critical of gender stereotypes and regressive ideas about women being used to define the female sex, this is what feminism is based on.

I would say talking to somebody in a patronising manner in an attempt to make them look stupid infront of a group because you don't like their views is a classic demonstration of rudeness.

So are you including all transgender people and the people who help them or support them in that definition?

Well, I find it a stretch to claim you are being dehumanised by being referred to as the gender critics.

Looks like we're all having our minds blown tonight!

Though it's clearly not sincere and is an attempt to make a group of people look victimised in order to make another group look like awful people. Not unlike when posters reduce trans people to liars, predators and crime statistics, but that's never pointed out is it.

I'm confused.

Is not your view that people who do not share belief in the primacy of gender, and who understand that mammalian sex is determined at conception and is immutable, are terrible people in the grip of an evil ideology and on the Wrong Side of History?

You didn't disagree with my summary of your view, conversely you seemed quite pleased.

Some trans people are liars, predators and contribute to crime statistics. Like a lot of men, and some women. And? Don’t think anyone anywhere has said ALL trans people.

Didn’t think we’d have to NAMALT on this thread but here we are.

Well, I find it a stretch to claim you are being dehumanised by being referred to as the gender critics

i find its a stretch when someone like you has to make stuff up to try and discredit people 🤷🏻

and who is you in the highlighted sentence? Or are you doing that naughty generalisation thing?

@SailorSerena I made no mention of transgender people. I do however think there are some doctors/organisations/campaign groups that for whatever purposes abuse some hugely vulnerable people.

I will try and find the link but the other day I read and linked to an article by a doctor who is calling for the wider use of therapy for people considering cosmetic surgery. I found the similarities between people who might be suffering from body integrity disorder and those who may be suffering from gender incongruence deeply disturbing.

You didn't disagree with my summary of your view, conversely you seemed quite pleased

thats a fair point…that particular poster seemed dead chuffed

No. That was not a dehumanising statement. It was hyperbole, to be sure.

It was hyperbole making a point to a poster who seems to have implied or may have stated (I have not checked what you have said over the pages) that feminists who prioritise sex over gender when sex matters and who reject sex stereotypes are on the wrong side of history.

It also did not group all people with transgender identities together. There are also transgender people who do not support female people who are minors getting double mastectomies.

If you don't support female people getting double mastectomies for the purposes of having a body that fits their philosophical belief in their personal identity, you could just say that you don't and say you reject that implication.

This doesn't surprise me either.

In short;
The bad guys are people who insist on denying trans people the dignity of referring to them how they wish to be addressed and think they shouldn't be allowed to transition or live how they want to live because it offends them in some way.

The good guys are people who show inclusion and respect to ALL people in society, not just the ones that you seem as acceptable

The right side of history is the one where in ten years time people look back and say gosh! I can't believe people thought it was ok to mock trans people!! Like we now say about the way gay people used to be treated.

Taking the piss out of trans people would include calling them men in dresses, calling them mutilated, posting pictures of trans women and ridiculing their stubble and saying things like "if you're going to try to be a woman at least put the effort in to shave", saying stupid things like WELL I IDENTIFY AS A TURTLE! GIVE ME A FISH TANK TO LIVE IN! , all things I've seen here on a regular basis, all intended to mock or belittle.

Tying this out multiple times over the past years hasn't changed anyone's mind so what's the point of typing it all again?

Nobody will know who was on the right side of history until history is over.

Is not your view that people who do not share belief in the primacy of gender, and who understand that mammalian sex is determined at conception and is immutable, are terrible people in the grip of an evil ideology and on the Wrong Side of History?

you sounded exactly the same as Captain jack sparrow!!!!

Not exactly as its different words but the same tone

History is written by the victors….

Seriously?

Just reject the implication and move on from the fact that posters are implying that anyone who supports transgender people getting the care they ask for is in league with people abusing children and thinks that's all fine?

No thanks. That's the exact kind of offensive grouping together that needs to be stopped.

That's the exact kind of offensive grouping together that needs to be stopped

like when you said ‘posters here are regularly taking the piss out of trans people and extremely rude to anyone who doesn't agree with them’

gotcha

"The bad guys are people who insist on denying trans people the dignity of referring to them how they wish to be addressed and think they shouldn't be allowed to transition or live how they want to live because it offends them in some way."

"the dignity of referring to them how they wish to be addressed"

No one has yet answered why one person's philosophical belief in their personal identity which demand language changes should be prioritised over someone else's belief? Would you like to explain why?

"think they shouldn't be allowed to transition"

And it is not quite as simplistic as this. Should children be allowed to transition? Considering that there is no solid evidence base that their mental health is improved and the life time negative impacts of the treatments are permanent and too often debilitating?

And should any public money be spent on extreme body modifications that are not treating a medical condition?

"live how they want to live because it offends them in some way."

If a person is going to demand that sex based protections are deprioritised and gender prioritised, this has great potential to cause harm to female people on an individual level and collectively. Do you think that a group of people should be allowed to act in a way that causes harm to others, or should an equitable solution be found?

I don't think you've been here much, tbh. This is all strawman bullshit.

It’s like a preacher has come along to a bunch of atheists and is telling them their lack of belief will cost them eternal salvation come The Rapture.

To which my response is “meh”.