Mumsnet listed as Anti-Trans

[Hoosemover]

there a list of organisations and Mumsnet is on it. Along with the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

x.com/twisterfilm/status/1888255119449268674?s=61

You understand language and groupings as you can not use The as and when you choose

SailorSerena · Today 17:02
Of course I see the difference between the transes' and transgender people.
There is no difference between 'The GC' I.E The Gender Critics and genderists. Only people can be critics therefore it is not dehumanising.

Of course I see the difference between the transes' and The transgender people.
There is no difference between 'The GC' I.E The Gender Critics and The genderists. Only people can be critics therefore it is not dehumanising.

SailorSerena · Today 18:36
The equivalent for trans people would be using The TW for 'the trans women' when talking about a group of trans women who are all doing the same thing as a group. I.e. the TW who use hormones. Not offensive, not derogatory, not dehumanising.

The equivalent for The trans people would be using The TW for 'the trans women' when talking about a Sub- group of trans women who are all doing the same thing as a group. I.e. the TW who use hormones as opposed to the TW who dont. Not offensive, not derogatory, not dehumanising.

reducing all trans people and people who support their rights to criminals who maim young distressed girls.

So the US surgeon who was adverting under the lovely catchphrase "Yeet the teet" was a criminal?
Or making easy money off a market segment which did not require complex reconstruction.
Or the ones pisstaking by not bothering to even try to reposition the nipple any near the correct area?

So, have we worked out where 'gender critics' came from?

I have searched and I found the top results to be relating to someone who is referring to anyone who criticises gender or evaluates it. I don't believe it was used to describe feminists who prioritise sex over gender though.

I may have missed some.

How about considering some of the actual issues.

Like, what is your view on males imposing themselves upon spaces designated for the sole use of women and/or girls?

e.g. males in women's changing rooms, males being locked up in women's prisons, and so on.

It’s hard because there is no middle ground it seems.

Unfortunately the divide will just get bigger and bigger with everyone yelling that the other is silencing them.

Mumsnet discussions though don’t tend to go well.

All feminism is inherently gender critical. Gender critical means what it says on the tin: critical of gender. If you think gender is a legitimate way in which to organise society then how exactly do you think you're any kind of feminist?

Unfortunately it's not a crime to maim distressed young girls as long as they say they are distressed young boys.

It should be though.

If your middle ground though involves being able to categorise others as anti-trans, I think we have reason to doubt your wish to find any middle ground.

So in short, you haven’t really got a clue about what ‘the GC’s’ think and want, especially around trans people.

I don’t think anyone cares how another adult human refers to themself, how they present or live their lives or what they do to their body. It’s when those NEGATIVELY IMPACT women, it becomes a problem. Being same sex attracted has never physically negatively impacted anyone else.

Rather they don’t want MALES, however one identifies - due to statistics and physiological advantage - in their spaces and sports, for safety, privacy and dignity. This ideology supports men being allowed to sit in on female only rape sessions. Do you support this?

Plenty of trans women wear dresses as they think that fits the regressive sex stereotype of what being a woman is. A man in a dress is a man in a dress.

They also don’t want impressionable children and teenagers being led onto a path of irreversible and harmful surgery.

You haven’t typed this out multiple times over the years. This constant ‘mocking’ of trans people is exaggerated. Women just don’t want males in their spaces and sports. Just because you believe they do and others don’t isn’t akin to mocking. No one else has to believe if they don’t want to.

Sometimes the truth hurts for people. Doesn’t make it wrong.

Origins off Twitter & US politic of what a good feminist is.

I think it was for men who agrees they were not male feminists.
And
Women who would be critical of the TWAW & pro-prostituion feminists, not have read the right books feminist, not got Head Girl approval of real feminist, be limited pro-choice so not feminist, not a feminist but....

It follows the two party model
The RSOH leftie bros and TWAW / pro-prostitution feminist
Or
The Liberated Right Wing woman (the leftie women) and the Right Wing women (center party) etc

. It’s when those NEGATIVELY IMPACT women, it becomes a problem. Being same sex attracted has never physically negatively impacted anyone else.

Exactly the same arguments were made about homosexuality. In changing rooms, mixed wards etc. That gay people were leering at people innocently getting changed and others felt uncomfortable with it.

The presence of a trans person doesn’t physically impact anyone else at all. It might impact them psychologically, if they feel uncomfortable, which is no different from feeling uncomfortable with someone gay.

It's not the presence of a trans person that's the problem it's the presence of men in womens spaces that's the problem

You're saying that a woman complaining that she doesn't want to share a women-only space with a man is equivalent to being homophobic?

I guess this is Laurie Penney's argument, about the transwoman in Wi Spa. That the little girls should be polite and avert their eyes from his erection.

Being gay doesn't mean you are more of a risk to the female sex. Being male does, gay or straight, white or black. Statistics show this.

The presence of trans person DOES physically impact someone if that trans person is male in a female space. Why do you think spaces and sports are sex segregated in the first place?

It was always illegitimate discrimination to attempt to exclude same sex attracted people from single sex spaces.

It is legitimate discrimination to exclude all male people over the age of a child requiring care, whatever that male person’s gender, from female single sex spaces.

There is no evidence of male people in the UK in general at any stage of transition, having a risk profile equal or less than a female person for safeguarding principles. Indeed, there is not evidence that that group of male people has a lower risk profile than the male group in general.

Any evidence of this?

I don't recall any changing rooms that were segregated by sexual orientation and then later controversially became mixed sexual orientation, with people of the most vulnerable sexual orientation arguing in favour of them being segregated by sexual orientation again.

Ah yes, the transwoman who is a convicted sex offender with a history of indecent exposure.

And before the arm flailing begins, he is an actual convicted sex offender with a history of indecent exposure.

But the girls and women using the single sex space for females within the spa should have just 'averted their eyes' from the sex offender's penis and not complained to the front desk about his presence according to Penny (and quite a few others) because he's a 'woman'.

Proof please on no sex based difference between criminal activity

by group A: "someone gay" and female and
by group B: "someone gay" and male

(Below a start point copied from another thread)

Note being male appears to be a high risk factor

TOTAL Prison Population x Orientation
4% of 1.6% women
96% of 1.6% men

4% of 96.6% women
96% of 96.6% men

You can go look for the government data on offences and do detailed maths to work out the sex of the sexual offenders and estimate the sexual orientation
The figures:
At mid-2022, there were
34,492,000 females and
33,105,000 males in the population of the UK.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/bulletins/annualmidyearpopulationestimates/mid2022#:~:text=At%20mid%2D2022%2C%20there%20were,of%20males%20since%20mid%2D2011.
Orientations
96.6 Heterosexual
1.6 Gay or Lesbian
1.7 Bisexual
0.38 Other orientations
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/sexuality/bulletins/sexualorientationenglandandwales/census2021
In the latest quarter, 97% of prisoners who declared a sexual orientation reported that they were heterosexual
Data check and ball park the Orienations are the sameish
Males comprised 96% of the prison population
Whole prison population
3,315 female prisoners
81,057 male prisoners
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/hmpps-offender-equalities-annual-report-2022-to-2023/hmpps-offender-equalities-annual-report-2022-23#:~:text=Prison%20Population,-Males%20comprised%2096&text=Proportionally%20males%20make%20up%2096,(78%2C802%20to%2081%2C057%20prisoners).

And if you want to try do the maths on tranagender population you can start with the link above too.

And

FYI psychologically harm is common assault under UK law.

Battery / common assault
Section 39 Criminal Justice Act 1988 (CJA 1988)
Common assault is an act by which a person intentionally or recklessly causes another to suffer or apprehend immediate unlawful violence. Battery is committed by the intentional or reckless application of unlawful force to another person. These are two separate offences, placed on a statutory footing by section 39 CJA 1988. Where battery is selected it should be charged as “assault by beating”: DPP v Taylor and Little [1992] Q.B. 645.

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/offences-against-person-incorporating-charging-standard

Now now, I like Gaius

To borrow an expression from another thread, "Gender Critical" might be a "nebulous dog-whistle". The true basis of gender critical that gender critical feminists subscribe to can be found here:

hollylawford-smith.org/what-is-gender-critical-feminism-and-why-is-everyone-so-mad-about-it/

The trans-positive understanding of gender critical feminism can be found here:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-critical_feminism

There are no touch points between the two understandings. However, I entirely reject your right to decide what I mean by my philosophy.

The presence of a trans person doesn’t physically impact anyone else at all. It might impact them psychologically, if they feel uncomfortable, which is no different from feeling uncomfortable with someone gay.

It's entirely different, because it isn't about them being "trans", an identity concept, it's about them being men in a women only space. But I'm sure, despite your trite little gotcha, you know this.

Legs it to google😃
Died at 23 and got his chin from his mother's side? Or
Died at 55 and sumered on the Nile with that Greek chic and had actual backstabbing work-mates?

Oh! And another thing. Translators speak more than one language. Does this mean that monolinguists are cislators? Also, if I get on a train in Hull that terminates in Bradford, am I using Cis Pennine Trains rather than Trans Pennine Trains?

Trans and Cis: bah!

Ha ha haaa! 😄 One of my local bus companies is called Trans Peak. If I get the one that goes round the hills and not over the hills, should it be called Cis Peak?

Thank you for posting the Holly Lawford-Smith reference; it was interesting to read about the background to GC Feminism. (I am not that well read in feminist history so a lot was new to me).