My 14 year old daughter has been sharing school changing rooms, including swimming, with a male. The school never told me, or her. What would you do?

[SernieBanders]

I believe this to be a failure of safeguarding and a risk to every female in the school.

I do not believe the school can give consent in any way, all children are under the age of 16, so they cannot either.

The school in question has adopted the Brighton Trans Inclusion Toolkit which actively encourages males and females to share spaces, including sleeping, without any supervision. They also have unisex toilets.

For the record, I believe all gender questioning children should be given full, dignified support for their schooling. However their needs do not supersede safeguarding and dignity of all female pupils.

What would you do? What legislation, guidance, rules would you quote to them? Straight to governors? The police? What?

THIS!

The CPS hastily withdrew their appalling anti safeguarding, anti female inappropriate "trans guidelines" for schools as soon as they were challenged to defend them at a Judicial Review.

If I recall correctly, it was a teenage girl (supported by her mother) who was horrified at what was being demanded from girls (compulsory undressing in front of boys, failure to respond positively to a male in female toilets / changing rooms was a hate crime etc). She wasn't a vulnerable child struggling with their mental health / identity etc. She was an "ordinary" student deeply offended by this crap and happy to go to court to challenge it.

That's what needs to happen to these (and other equally dangerous) guidelines

thanks for this, I agree it’s a problem with men and changing rooms mostly . But I still have suspicions about the op and find his posts very strange.

3 females from penn uni are suing the university for allowing lia Thomas to compete vs them and change with them... amp.cnn.com/cnn/2025/02/06/us/ncaa-upenn-lawsuit-lia-thomas

Surely the issue is HOW this is enabled.

It doesn't automatically have to mean 'throw a boy who wants to be a girl and still has a willy into a no-cubicle girls changing room with communal showers'...

It could mean 'trans pupils can access the changing room of preference ten minutes early, supervised by a teacher' or 'trans pupils can change in the changing room of preference in a private cubicle... supervised by a teacher'...

They need to spell out HOW these things are enabled - I can absolutely see that if you think you're a girl and then you're made to change with the boys, that would be pretty distressing.

But we can surely separate out the 'right to use the changing room of preference' from any percieved 'right to change WITH the other girls because thats what actually makes me feel like a girl'...?

You go girls ! 👏👏

Indeed. This whole nonsense has highlighted that women's voices just aren't listened to. Otherwise it never would have happened in the first place. We will, unfortunately, need men's voices to end it.

There should be a third space with privacy for changing. Not just for those who wish to be known as a girl/woman when born male (and vice-versa), but for certain medical conditions such as those who wear a stoma, or undergoing certain types of cancer treatment.

'But I still have suspicions about the op and find his posts very strange.'

Yes, so you keep saying. None of us presumably know the OP, but to me he comes across as a man who has done the uncomfortable work of confronting the grave problems caused by the sex class he belongs to.

If you agree that men are a risk to women, I don't understand why you'd have a problem with the OP acknowledging it.

I know the pool in question and there are 2 small changing rooms, one boys one girls and no cubicles. Kids are absolutely packed in whenever there is a swimming lesson. It was refurbed a few years ago. There obviously wasn’t money to extend the building and there is no room to extend the changing rooms or build a third changing room inside the existing building.

@Waitingfordoggo that’s not how he comes across to me. Stop asking me about it if you don’t want me to repeat myself again.

My child has a feeding tube. While it's not something scary to me or him. Other children have been freaked out by it. It makes more sense for it to be hidden.

You sound naive.

I didn't ask you about it, but ok. Clearly we don't agree about how the OP comes across. 🤷🏼‍♀️

@Waitingfordoggo clearly

Oh, sorry, I see now you weren't questioning the accuracy of his analysis of the problem but other matters which I won't spell out.

But I think my reply to you stands on its own, even though you probably don't disagree with it!

This. I work at a secondary school and am aware that DfE guidance is not to accommodate gender fluidity among children, and not to use different names unless requested by parents. Our school would never allow male students to change with females - that's utter madness.

While we would of course provide pastoral support to such children, they are still children and don't get to dictate school rules. You are right to be concerned about your daughter having to share changing rooms with a boy, (and he is a boy, a trans woman who had had the full operations might be different, but that won't be the case in a school child).

Thank you. It's worth remembering that countless schools have prioritised safeguarding and children's rights to an age appropriate education and successfully swerved allowing adult transactivists to influence them.

You sound like a great dad, OP. What a shame your daughter’s mother is not so aware of the dangers to her child.
The Brighton trans awareness guidelines are misogynistic, regressive crap.

Yes @MrsOvertonsWindow in both cases SSA supported it was teenage girls, supported by their parents, who were appalled at what was happening to the their rights and were prepared to take action. In both cases the CPS and OCC backed down and withdrew. Many councils followed suit after the Oxfordshire case but Brighton would not budge. We've always said we'd support and parent or child who wanted to take similar action and always felt Brighton needed challenging most of all.

Do teachers not have enough to do without this nonsense?

Well, quite. How would the teacher get away from their previous lesson, in order to reinforce a boy's view that he's one of The Most Special and More Valued?

Never mind why he should have such gilded treatment. Or not.

It seems to me that this Brighton and Hove Toolkit is in direct contravention of the Case Review, which states very clearly that social transition is a medical intervention. Teachers are not qualified to make medical diagnosis or suggest suitable treatment pathways, so in the absence of an official diagnosis or gender dysphoria from a suitably qualified NHS doctor and unequivocal evidence that the doctor has recommended social transition, schools should not be doing this.

You are also correct about safeguarding and, in your shoes, I would be sending a legal letter threatening action if they did not ensure that girls has single sex spaces for changing.

Cass Review:
cass.independent-review.uk/home/publications/final-report/

@JustAskingThisQ

someone could sneak a picture of someone they are attracted to while they are naked.

Thats a nice fluffy "but lesbians!" point.

When what you are describing is the production and posession of child sex abuse images on a school premises.

It is rather hard for a school to teach a child how that act is unacceptable due to safeguarding, consent (not possible), boundries, personal dignity etc. while at the same time forcing girls to undress beside a boy.

context of school changing rooms which are at least semi supervised.

What would be your guess on the correlation between a teacher being willing risk a complaint of sexual misconduct and that teacher being an actual sex offender?

You can actually work out 1 and 2 the likelyhood of assaults physical and/or sexual yourself by using publically available data

Note being male appears to be a high risk factor

TOTAL Prison Population x Orientation
4% of 1.6% women
97% of 1.6% men

4% of 96% women
97% of 96% men

You can go look for the government data on offences and do detailed maths to work out the sex of the sexual offenders and estimate the sexual orientation

The figures:

At mid-2022, there were
34,492,000 females and
33,105,000 males in the population of the UK.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/bulletins/annualmidyearpopulationestimates/mid2022#:~:text=At%20mid%2D2022%2C%20there%20were,of%20males%20since%20mid%2D2011.

Orientations
96.6 Heterosexual
1.6 Gay or Lesbian
1.7 Bisexual
0.38 Other orientations
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/sexuality/bulletins/sexualorientationenglandandwales/census2021

In the latest quarter, 97% of prisoners who declared a sexual orientation reported that they were heterosexual

Data check and ball park the Orienations are the sameish

Males comprised 96% of the prison population
Whole prison population
3,315 female prisoners
81,057 male prisoners

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/hmpps-offender-equalities-annual-report-2022-to-2023/hmpps-offender-equalities-annual-report-2022-23#:~:text=Prison%20Population,-Males%20comprised%2096&text=Proportionally%20males%20make%20up%2096,(78%2C802%20to%2081%2C057%20prisoners).

And if you want to try do the maths on tranagender population you can start with the link above too.

And it just needs repeating that violent men don't have to be "attracted" to a person, or to their sex in general, in order to rape them