NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #5

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 January 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3

Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4

NC is explaining why they want to see certain emails.

NC: 'we haven't reached agreement on ... list of issues ... 'unwanted conduct alleged against 1st respondent' - 'victimisation claim' .... 'detriments alleged by 2nd respondent' ... 18 questions from the list of issues, each one relates to the complaint made by Dr Upton against SP ... decisions made whether suspension was appropriate, how to conduct investigation ... to understand those matters, it's crucial to understand what allegations Fife board thought itself to be investigating. IN particular, related to that, whehter when those concerns raised by Dr U specifically and most importantly when allegations relating to patient safety were raised ... that is why we have been so anxious to see the covering emails entitled 'hate incident' and 'formal complaint' [I think this is re the BMA]

'We've been for some time anxious to see the covering emails.'

[Sorry, sound's not great, missing bits.]

The mics are shite.

Scottish courts are very hot on contempt of court - if there is a disclosure order not complied with is that contempt?

Two investigations since the aborted investigation by E Davidson,

These documents are covering emails for two documents entitled Hate Incident and Formal Complaint. All covering emails as the docs were sent to various people within Fife.

I already feel NC is outperforming anything we've seen until this point.

So they are asking to see the emails themselves which were sent, conveying DU's complaints, not just the complaints themselves. That makes sense.

I had to name change because of technical issues, and I let Mumsnet pick a name for me. And I have to say I'm loving this name

I hope the ums disappear when she's questioning DrU

Important difference between 'hate incident' and 'formal complaint' email is that the former only relates tot he changing room incident', and the 'formal complaint' also includes the 'missing patient incident' and the 'resusc incident'.

So basically NHS Fife have refused to show NC the emails sent between themselves and Upton relating to two of his specific complaints.

Hopefully

NC wants to know exactly what was discussed between NHS and Upton and for some reason the NHS doesn't want to say.

NC 'we now do have the covering email, receieved last night'
Judge 'do we have it?'
NC - no, not yet
[discussion of email attachments]
NC - after 9pm last night we rec'd original email with attachment.

Sounds like a song...

If I remember correctly from the ERCC case, NC does use 'ummm' a lot but still manages to be pretty lethal

NC: Doc supplied to Glancy as part of her investigation was 'hate incident' not 'formal complaint'

She's using the ums to slow herself down so that the Judge can keep up taking notes, isn't she?

I read a judgment where the Judge was pissed off that his Orders had been ignored.
He wrote 'they're Orders. Not preferences, requests, or mere instructions; they are orders.

Really appreciate the running summarising happening in these threads, as I find TT a bit too detailed to keep track of right at this moment.

Also prh47bridge, appreciate your calm and knowledgeable posts. It's really frustrating when 'chinese whispers' take off in a very long and fast-moving thread as it's hard to unpick the reality of the matter. Would love it if people could stick to the facts!

Well good morning judge how are you today, I'm in trouble please put me away

I am still mind blown that those 2 episodes can conceivably be described as incidents.

We heard all the detail of these non events from DU themselves and literally NOTHING DOING.

These 2 interactions are so undifferentiated from millions of similar workplace episodes happening right now today, in NHS settings around the country.

RIDICULOUS

That's telling them! Was that Judge Judy by any chance?😄

'one telling detail emerging is that Esther davidson was still investigating at least until Feb 2024, we've now seen covering email to Louise Curran's statement'

How nervous is watching this making Dr U. It does sound like there's deliberate withholding going on, how smoking is the gun they're going to find. Has the Dr been advised to look for evidence of bad patient care to strengthen the complaint?