NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #5

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 January 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3

Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4

So what you are saying is under female on the CR door it should say 'may contain nuts'? 🌰🌰

I've popped this on and oh what an inspirational woman. Great listening. The Greek music also bringing back childhood memories.

I agree but the alternative POV is that Dr U is the Rosa Park’s of the trans work at the sharp end of winning civil rights. Rosa Parks broke the law to make a stand and the law was eventually changed. The difference for me is that Rosa Parks getting to sit where she wanted on the bus didn’t involve the compromise of anyone else’s right to privacy or dignity. For me this situation is more like Rosa Parks demanding the mobility impaired person make room for her. Much less obvious what the fair thing to do is

If you are autistic and bright with Internet access, you can go from 0 to 100 on a special interest very very fast.

So I'd expect some people can go from minor question about not feeling they fit in, to full on TRA very quickly.

If a woman leaving a room, not saying hello at one point, not making eye contact, and asking the fully grown man why he's using a female-only changing room made him go running to the wellbeing room shaking and sobbing and have to be escorted to his car, have therapy and take months and months off work having panic attacks, what's Naomi Cunningham's cross examination going to do to him?

That’s why I expect he won’t show up @yourhairiswinterfire. I hope he does.

Love your username. My heart burns there too!

Dr U decided to trans in 2022, after 2 years at Uni(?) during the covid lockdowns.

Do not underestimate the amount of trans/gender stuff that was being pumped out on Tik Tok at a time when people would have been stuck in their bubbles for a lot of the time.

It's like a cult.

I'm thinking that too. I was hoping NC would get a chance to start yesterday when he was there and wouldn't be able to cry off. I'm expecting delays, and more delays, then a big song and dance about a crying and shaking panic attack which means the poor little lamb won't be able to face such an ordeal. He got to tell his sob story and now can't possibly face any scrutiny.

No idea about whether he can actually get away with doing a bunker, but I hope not.

Absolutely

Upton said she did not feel comfortable in male locker rooms

That is one hell of a slur he is aiming at his male colleagues. I was sure he said he would feel unsafe in the male locker rooms which is an even worse claim to make against his colleagues.

That's a really good point.

Sorry when I said he had a “feminine mental state” it should have been in scare quotes. I obviously think there is no such thing. But Dr Upton appears to believe that his beliefs/ feelings make him a woman.

And yet when confronted with an actual female who is upset and intimidated to find an entitled, uncaring, self-righteous male in her female changing room, she's apparently the big old aggressive, bigoted meanie who harassed him by having a normal female reaction to that situation.

His stereotyped "feminine mental state" trumps her actual female instinct.

Sadly, it's similar with self harming and anorexia fuelled by online social contagion too. And there appears to be overlap in these online 'communities' and teenage girls/young women who identify as trans.

Is it a 10am start today?

Do not underestimate the amount of trans/gender stuff that was being pumped out on Tik Tok at a time when people would have been stuck in their bubbles for a lot of the time.

As I remember it, there was a time right at the beginning where this stuff wasn't indulged as much, because Covid was pretty scary. But most of these people were quite privileged and sheltered, their parents and siblings weren't the ones working in care homes. And it dragged on and on and on and young people were socially isolated, and as you say, it all ramped up massively.

I don't know the legalities but I would assume NC could ask that the case be immediately found in favour of her client?

I can't imagine a situation where one side in a case is forced to undergo cross-examination and the other side isn't.

The fact that Wadhwa left her underlings to face the cross-examination on their behalf was what demonstrated they were utterly unsuited to run the organisation on a personal level, leaving aside any arguments about trans status. It can't have played well with the Judges.

I’m in and waiting remotely. Gave up on accessing it on my phone and I’m on my laptop.

Thank you everyone who is posting. I can’t keep up with the volume of posts but I’m both fascinated and outraged by the content of the ones I’ve read.

Men belong in men’s facilities, and women in women’s facilities. Make a separate one for mixed sex.

Officially, yes.

I have to leave at 10:20 so that's probably when they will start

WFTCHTJ

Me too

@NotAGentleReminder a long time ago I had a job in teenage cancer care.

It was very frequent for a sibling of the affected teen to be anorexic.

I'd not be surprised if that had swapped to trans. I've definitely seen teens respond to the trauma of a terminally ill parent by developing a trans identity.

I know the thread has moved on, but I just wanted to address this. Yes, I know there are parallels with narcissism. But to me, the interesting part is the trans widows say they underwent a personality change.

The similar experiences of trans widows are very notable.

That's so sad. I agree, it does sometimes seem to be a trauma response. Attempt to gain some control in a situation you have no control over. But the behaviours adopted to do this involve being very controlling over what others do. Very difficult.

And also given the rate of offending of men against women it's basically also saying 'my feelings trump those of every single biological female in the hospital' because a lot of them will feel the same about male bodies in the women's, which isn't conducive to good working relationships.

Has he turned up, do we know?