I think males should be banned from female sport and anyone should be allowed to enter the male / open category. The US President has just signed an executive order saying this.

[SernieBanders]

Females need their own sports for reasons of fairness, competitiveness and safety. I am glad that orders like this make it easier to talk about these issues without being called a biggot.

Everyone deserves fair opportunities, women and girls are under represented in sport, this can only help that get a little better.

Transgender sports people also clearly deserve opportunities to participate in sport and so trans women and men should be allowed to enter male / open categories or have their own categories if needed.

https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-transgender-athletes-3606411fc12efffec95a893351624e1b

The title will be "Keeping Men Out of Women's Sports," but the detail is not released yet, today though

The titles of these EOs really cut to the chase, don't they?

I'm left wing and am Gender Critical. The right wing were the ones in power pushing a trans agenda. It's not that partisan.

In darts or something?

Because in any sport involving strength, speed, power or indurance, male bodied will beat women. Its basic physiology.

My husband has worked across many sports with elite athletes, right up to Olympic and World champions. And not once has he coached a woman who could beat a man in the same event. These are women who are astonishing athletes, the best in the world. Fast and strong. But they cannot be faster and stronger than men.

If you don't know anything at all about sport, that is absolutely fine, it isn't compulsory. But id leave people who do understand it to debate it. Yes, the most elite women who are talented and train their arse off, are better than unfit men. No, the most fit women would never ever ever beat the most fit men. Males have a 10-20% biological advantage depending on the particular sport.

Yes, the left right binary (no pun intended) on this one is not a UK thing. At all. GC and genderism are each represented on both right and left.

A stopped clock is right twice a day!

As is a good grasp of biology.

Why does it bother you what a trans person is doing?

It bothers me @dovetail22uk bevause I am a competitive swimmer who has zero chance, nada, against a biological male, who is equally talented/fit as I am.

I mean, Trump as an arch enemy of women generally suddenly doing one thing that benefits women is a bit like Boris Johnson, the long term russian asset, suddenly supporting Ukraine.

They both managed to get one thing right in amongst a general clusterfuck, and then only for their own reasons.

Can we introduce another acronym along the lines of NAMALT? It’s I’m Not A Fan of Trump But - so INAFOT. It’ll save a lot of time when explaining to people that agreeing with some of the Orange one’s decisions does not mean that you’ve abandoned a lifelong commitment to women’s rights, access to abortion, equal pay etc… Some people just can’t seem to grasp this possibility and it does my fucking head in!

Unfortunately we can't vote for you. I wouldn't say that the Labour Party or the Democrats are gender critical. Or that the right wing push a trans agenda!

aren;t they great

I'm not up for office. I'm simply pointing out that not all left wing people support TRAs and that it was the Tories who were in power when gender ideology infiltrated every institution in the UK and the Equalities Minister and May were pushing their agenda.

Dammit. And I was so going to say I was going to be a millionaire today.

Define woman without:

1. Using the word woman

2. Using sexist stereotypes 3. Excluding any woman

Yes, May wanted to introduce self ID and it was on her watch that a potentially very dangerous consultation on the issue was launched. Thank fuck that one never went anywhere. Then another Tory kicked it into the long grass.

The idea that GC is right wing and genderism left is a North American one, and it's not a good idea to apply it to our society where it doesn't fit.

They should be banned from all women's services. They should also be banned from claiming to be any sort of woman in for form of nobody taking them seriously or pandering to their whims and nefarious delusions.

hear hear

That was meant to be "in the form".

I think people are changing their minds too. A few years ago stating facts would be deleted on here etc and things were much more controlled

Over time more women have given this some thought and have realised how unfair and wrong it is

The only thing he has ever said that I agree with.

We can't have categories for everything a person might choose to do to themselves, there aren't even categories for people with chronic conditions, they just suck up what life throws at them. There would be an outcry if anyone suggested SRS should be a Paralympic category, in line with a limb amputation, as the movement is very ablist, especially in the way they discuss mental illness (not us, how offensive) or how lucky breast cancer patients are to have surgery.

There's no more a need for a specific category for TW than there is for "women who have got massive breast implants that impede their movement" or "female doping athletes." Choose not to meet the criteria or weaken yourself to be non competitive = not entering.

Professional female athletes wanting to medically transition to trans men tend to wait until they have finished their career, or it'd be doping. Male athletes can do the same or choose which is more important to them.

Absolutely. I was 'TWAW, be kind' until I joined Mumsnet. It certainly opened my eyes.

I hope this thread opened a few more eyes