I think males should be banned from female sport and anyone should be allowed to enter the male / open category. The US President has just signed an executive order saying this.

[SernieBanders]

Females need their own sports for reasons of fairness, competitiveness and safety. I am glad that orders like this make it easier to talk about these issues without being called a biggot.

Everyone deserves fair opportunities, women and girls are under represented in sport, this can only help that get a little better.

Transgender sports people also clearly deserve opportunities to participate in sport and so trans women and men should be allowed to enter male / open categories or have their own categories if needed.

https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-transgender-athletes-3606411fc12efffec95a893351624e1b

The motivations don;t bother me.The outcome does.

We all know Trump is a narcissist who doesn’t actually give a shiny shit about women’s rights and he's doing this because he knows it appeals to the majority of the voters. Plus the opportunity to get that money shot photo surrounded by sportswomen is worth it’s weight in gold to his ego

Most of us know exactly who and what Trump is but on this issue, we agree with him even if we don’t agree with any other words that come out of his mouth.

It doesn’t matter who has signed this EO and why - the fact it’s been signed is what matters

Just hoping against all hope that Stamer and his cronies follow suit - we know he won’t but we can but wish.

Yep. If you won't put a female in a prison cell together with a male then the whole edifice falls.

You end up having to not lie to children.

How can we tell if politicians give a shiny shit about women's rights?

Surely only by the policies they implement?
How else?

@SernieBanders I understand your point but the outcomes should include a wider range of radical grassroots scientifically linked factors to be truly effective.

Otherwise it's just a middle finger to the left.

And when eventually the left swings back into power, they'll just reverse it.

Or to put it another way, he's just "being a bigot" and his actions will be dismissed by the dems.

If it was part of a whole host of truly feminist principles, it gets harder for lefty dems to argue against it.

More of the population get on board with the whole idea of valuing the rights of women and girls in sport and life long health care. (And can include rights to contraception and abortion.)

Then it's no longer a left v right thing at risk of being a political football. It's just bloody common sense.

More of the population get on board with the whole idea of valuing the rights of women and girls in sport and life long health care. (And can include rights to contraception and abortion.)

Given the chance, people often do.

Like a majority of voters in Arizona, Missouri, Nevada and Montana, where measures on abortion rights passed in ballots, and Trump won in the presidential election - simultaneously.

I'm alright, Jack

It's actually Jackie.

And many many female al there’s are now also alright so that’s a win eh

It's amazing that such a misogynist and regressive cause managed to attach itself to the list of "compulsory beliefs for the progressive identified person".

Although, it's become depressingly evident over the past decade or so that there are as many left wing misogynists as there are right wing ones. They got offered the opportunity to be mask off and still be considered progressive, and fucking hell, they took it.

I keep popping into the EO threads in case I read a compelling argument as to a) Why it's wrong for me to be pleased for these women and girls and b) why they should be expected to wait until someone acceptable comes along to sort it out.

So far a) yup, I'm still pleased for them and b) nope, I still don't see why they should have to wait.

I still cannot understand how some people manage to logically believe the good people are the people doing the bad thing and the bad people are the people doing the good thing.

It's insane level thinking.

It seems to be argued: the good people say they are good even though they're doing bad things so they must be actually good really.

The bad people don't say the nice stuff while they do the good thing so they are obviously actually bad.

It's insane level thinking.

I also don't understand those who accept that the left are wrong on this issue but still the good guys one all the other stuff. How can anyone still not see this is not an isolated misjudgment by the left, it is consistent with and a feature of their out of control identiterian politics across the board.

Everyone who claims the left are the good guys, but can see how they lost their minds on this issue, should really be joining the dots on the lefts current thinking across issues.

It has a fundamental flaw which has led to this and other ongoing insanity.

I know Flo. I actually think that it is simply a discussion terminator that gets deployed. I don't believe that those pointing the fingers at women saying 'this EO is a good thing' will ever answer the 'should female athletes have to wait until the right government is in power?' question. Because it would show their priorities.

They would of course try distractive whataboutery tactics like we have seen, but they will not acknowledge the degree of harm that has now been reduced and the discussion that will be now forced due this EO.

I think that's down to some male predators wearing the "ally" skinsuit as much as other male predators wear the "woman" skinsuit. Predators will put on whatever camoflague they think will get them closest to their prey without their prey becoming alert to the danger.
Whenever I hear a male describe themself as an "ally" that's a huge red flag for me. My inner monologue lets out a really sarcastic "yeah I just bet you are" whenever I hear that. Recently Neil Gamien's face has started popping up too for some reason....

Woman washing has many forms...

California has declared it is going to ignore the edict and continue to enforce males into female sports. As evidenced here in Britain, these matters are going to have to be taken to court and addressed there.....it is not until then that institutions and organisations, so established in this stuff, will be forced to change.

Here's yesterday's cartoon from the Australian .

Par for the course I suppose, the Democrats were very keen on federal power when they wielded. Now they don't they're reverting back to Confederate nullification.

Gosh that's bold for Australia!

It is bold as pp says. It's odd as Aus is quite captured with this stuff from what I've read ok here

Legally anyway. Will the tide turn soon?

Only just opened the vote and seen 7% voted for males, which by definition includes transwomen, to compete in female sport..

Jaw on floor - what universe do these 7% occupy?

Possible conclusions:
They hit the wrong button by mistake;
They seriously believe that reducing testosterone to levels still well above those of most women, evens the playing field (it doesn't);
They believe that transwomen don't have the same sporting rights as women (they do) - there is a category called 'male';
They went awol in biology lessons or possibly are young enough to have been caught up in the modern biology trope that sex is some sort of spectrum (it isn't);
That males with DSD and XY chromosomes are women because they have long hair and their outward genitals appear more female (they aren't);
That men miraculously change sex by having bits chopped off, filling their bodies with female hormones, or even just deciding to call themselves women because they fancied it or they have some sort of psychological problem (they don't, sex is immutable);
They bought into this "be kind" trope to pander to a wee fraction of the population (which is deeply unkind to sportswomen and half the world's population);
None of the above, but think it doesn't matter if thousands of women are deprived of medals, representing their country, county, town, college - whatever (it does).

I'm sure there must be more reasons - none of them logical - but that's enough to be going on with.....

@EasternStandard

It is bold as pp says. It's odd as Aus is quite captured with this stuff from what I've read ok here

Legally anyway. Will the tide turn soon?

It really, really isn't. I suspect your reading has lead to see certain things with a narrow lens.

The Australian is owned by Rupert Murdoch and is right- leaning. I'd very much expect this from them.

I doubt it. No more than your reading has led you to see with a narrow lens.

Hadley Freeman’s article is a good analysis of how the Democratic Party’s policy overreach on social issues makes Trump seem reasonable even when he is prone to overreach himself:

https://www.thetimes.com/article/8af285ab-382a-4d90-b346-ab03df6d9219?shareToken=68298b9998022a7efa9e0c32b914d4f2