NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board - thread #2

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 January 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks.

First thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

It's being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr

The way that Upton has handled this plays into all the stereotypes of how TW could be seen by nervous employers, and why, if I was an employer, I would body swerve anyone with pronouns on their CV.

Also, as a pp said, if the govt would be clear about single sex spaces, none of this would be happening.

What is this about Beth breaching the EQA? Does that apply to individuals? I'd thought it was associations, companies etc

Hope we get to see the Russell V Forstater rematch this afternoon.

TT 2nd half of morning tweets

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1886740963789266953.html

I am so pleased that the judge/panel insisted that this case could not be held in private AND that it was not acceptable for Beth to remain anonymous.

I do hope somebody gives nurse Peggie a big cuddle; that was horrendous.

It was absolutely horrendous. Yet another example of the process being the punishment.

Well don’t then! Use the men’s!

Being off sick for 2 months at that stage of training is so rare. I was seriously unwell with depression and would drag myself into work because of the consequences of missing out on training.

Honestly it sounds like Beth should have had a year or more out, focussed on sorting out her transition, getting to grips with the fact that responses to her in real life would not be the same as in her small, Scottish, LGBTQ+ activist group and generally getting some therapy.

Bizarrely feel sorry for Beth who is very young, and has been led to believe by the Scottish political/university culture that she is very special and to be cared for at all times.

OK not actually sorry. Beth has a staggering lack of awareness of their impact on other people.

This woman has been suspended, lost her shift pattern, been socially isolated, had her relationships, social media, text messages, menstrual experiences and sexual assault history shared publicly in court and they're making her out to be the one with power and bullying behaviours.

The process is the punishment.

Burn the witch.

Is JR's repetitive questioning basically a time wasting tactic do you think?

I remember in another tribunal the court was worried about running out of time and started insisting (I think) Ben Cooper to shorten his questioning of witnesses for the other side... Because the opposing QC has spent extra time cross examining at the beginning.

It feels like deliberately running down the clock.

Is there a rough timetable of the proceedings available anywhere?

If Sandy has been an A+E nurse for 30 years, I doubt in all that time, anyone has given a stuff about whether she 'feels safe' or not.

She's probably be assaulted, sworn at, felt up, vomited on and worse and just got on with it.

@Madcats I do hope somebody gives nurse Peggie a big cuddle; that was horrendous.

I agree! I think it was said that her husband is being called as a witness, which means she can't even talk to him about the case just now, I really hope she does have someone with her!

It doesn’t apply to individuals but Upton is not acting as an individual - he is an employee and therefore representative of his employer.

Thank you for the new thread. Just catching up.

Does anyone know if these sessions are being recorded so can be watched later?

I remember that!

And Ben basically said 'yeah...no'.

In a very professional, legal fashion, of course.

TBF, people may have said the same about women when they started to take sex discrimination claims and maternity rights claims.

The problem is not this individual, who is trying to enforce a 'right' he has been given by his employer, but the fact that NHS Fife and the SG et al, have decided that he should that 'right'. The problem is the whole machinery of the public sector, and third sector in Scotland, that has given men priority over women.

@Boiledbeetle would you mind posting morning proceedings as i could access the ones you did yesterday ta in anticipation

And this is partly why having single SEX spaces to get away from all that is important.

And the hospital can have (empty) single GENDER spaces too if they want. No-one's stopping them.

I missed the end - what time are we back?

I am intrigued to read that the tribunal is expected to last two weeks. This issue could be replicated in workplaces up and down the country so surely national leadership/law is needed?

Are men allowed in women's changing rooms or not? That is surely what it boils down to and two weeks of examining the ins and outs of these people as individuals doesn't really help the broader issue. There just needs to be a clear national decision - is it OK for men (the ones born with penises) to use women's changing rooms, toilets, prisons, hospital wards etc etc. Personalities shouldn't come into it. I'm hoping the answer is no.

1.50

Back at 13:50.

Thanks