Positive aspects of trans?

[eatfigs]

Now that one of the most powerful men on the planet has put his weight behind ending the influence of gender identity ideological beliefs on American government policy, I think it's fair to assume this is the beginning of the end for trans activism, not just in the US but globally.

Maybe a eulogy is premature but it got me thinking about some of the arguably more positive aspects of trans that will be on the way out too.

Such as, I like their underlying message of non-conformity with sex roles. Why shouldn't we all wear what we please, regardless of our sex? There's nothing wrong with a man wearing a dress or a woman wearing trousers and a shirt.

I also like how much of the original intent, back when trans was considered a manifestation of gender dysphoria, was to be accommodating to individuals with a medical condition that caused them significant distress. Like we make accommodations for many other vulnerable or marginalised groups.

Finally I appreciate how trans gives many people a sense of community in a world that in hostile to individuals who don't conform to society's expectations. Trans activism in particular gives them a purpose.

I still fundamentally disagree with their beliefs, and everything positive I mentioned above is sullied with all the harmful nonsense they layered on top of it. But I just wanted to give a thoughtful nod to the underdog on its way down.

Probably one of the most ridiculous OPs I've ever read.

No one has done that?

What is this then?

I did a search. One person mentioned 'nutters'.

In the same way we get accused of 'generalising', this was indeed a generalisation.

Nah, all that would happen is he would lose his income stream and the activists would cast him aside for not being a “true trans”.

This is the most eloquent and accurate summary of the whole trans ideology nonsense I've ever seen. 👏👏👏

It's taken us back centuries in terms of how we think about thinking.

(Yes, I know, there do exist unworkable political theories, religions, mass hysterias, and conspiracy theories, but surely this is the first obviously totally factually wrong thing that has achieved worldwide acceptance: my belief in humanity's reasonableness has been undermined, to say the least.)

I liked your opennes and engagement in the other thread, but I think you are mis-characterising this thread with this comment.
As far as I can tell there's been one comment in this thread that's been deleted that I assume your characterisation could apply to.

To return to the original question Positive aspects of trans?
I think the answer is.. wait... there must be one... no .....tumbleweed.
Or to use that other figure of speech representing silence: crickets😄

Thanks for the OP, it has provoked some very thoughtful analytical replies about stereotyping etc., and this has by no means been
'A thread calling all trans people nutters and narcissists'.

One positive aspect of trans is that I've found loads of new and interesting women who believe in reality and I have a range of tshirts which people ask 'what's all that about Gerbils/why is that all spelt wrong? and it sparks a conversation over a coffee.

It's reactivated my second wave feminism like nobody's business.

I've argued on another thread that disparaging comments are a way of coping with negative emotions. I imagine many people on this board have no-one else they can vent their feelings about this issue to. Silenced at work, shunned by ex-friends, banned from SM, terrified for their children some of the anti - #BeKind anger is going to be on view here from time to time. It is ofc for the mods ultimately to decide what is appropriate, but I would suggest that if a comment affects a reader's sensibilities they should assume it applies to someone such as a male presenting as a woman in order to abuse women prisoners, to give just one possible example

I think there is a reasonable chance that this post is by a troll. But on the off chance it isn’t I think it worth addressing this misconceived notion:

“Such as, I like their underlying message of non-conformity with sex roles. Why shouldn't we all wear what we please, regardless of our sex? There's nothing wrong with a man wearing a dress or a woman wearing trousers and a shirt.”

One significant problem with the TRA movement is that it reinforces gender stereotypes, it does not challenge them. It suggests that if a man wants to wear a skirt he actually IS a women, not simply a man who wants to wear a skirt. It implies that if girls prefer to wear trousers and don’t like make up, they might not be women at all, they might be boys.

These attitudes are the absolutely the opposite of gender non-conformity.

It suggests that if a man wants to wear a skirt he actually IS a women, not simply a man who wants to wear a skirt.

I knew a man who grew his long hair a little longer than usual and was asked if that meant his pronouns had changed.

Of course, it's possible that this assumption was made because he was also loudly pro-Q and he did in fact go on to identify as "genderfluid" a few years later. But I remember being amazed at the time that he'd thought this question progressive rather than the reverse.

Also if Gen Z is really progressive and all about ignoring gendered expectations, why do I never see young women with short hair? The few young women I've seen with short hair don't want to be seen as women. There may be some exceptions for gay women, and disabled women who choose short hair for ease of care, but if you look at a lineup of female students for example, almost all will have long hair.

Skirts are not a reproductive organ. Nor are high heels.

Just in case anyone is in doubt on this. However I do feel the need in this insanity to explicitly state this!

This, 100%. Transgenderism doesn’t oppose the old stereotypes, it positively enforces them. Men dressing like 50s showgirls to ‘prove’ they’re really women!

But far more important than that, the backwardness they’ve dragged children into. God damn anyone who makes a child believe that if they don’t conform to outdated girly or boyish stereotypes there’s something wrong with them.

Trans is: the enforcement of sex-role stereotypes PLUS misogyny PLUS homophobia.

Understandably, with that pedigree, it has produced nothing positive.

But he's not being accepted for being non confirming and wearing what he wants.
He's being accepted when wearing what he wants is now classifying him as saying he's a woman. If he said he was a man, they would tear him limb from limb.

I think if you strip it all away, and sit with the core message it's about being true to yourself, no matter the cost. I think many of us could learn from that.

I can get on board with being truthful but being true to yourself no matter what the cost...not so much, if the cost is borne by other people.
I don't think that would be a positive message, I think it's too individualistic.

How is pretending you’re a sex you are not and can never be, and saying it’s hateful if other people don’t agree “being true to yourself”? We don’t say that when people pretend to be an age, ethnicity or height they are not, or pretend to have a disability. It’s appropriating someone else’s actual real self and life, and it’s delusional - at least when trans people insist they really are the opposite sex (I acknowledge some are more realistic about it).. True to yourself would mean understanding your biology and learning to accept it even if you don’t like it, and choosing to live and dress how you like and rejecting gender stereotypes if you want to - as many many people have done over the centuries.

it’s such an insult as a woman to see a male person insisting he’s a woman, invading women’s spaces, taking prizes meant for women, causing women fear and upset and then be told I have to admire how “true to (pronoun)self” this is. Really? There’s no other situation in which this kind of behaviour would be described that way.

As PPs have said, the issue is : what is being 'true' to yourself?

Gender-questioning children should be encouraged to be true to their actual physical selves, i.e. the male or female bodies they inhabit, rather than locating their 'true self' in a different body which they do not have, and which can only be approximated by pharmaceuticals and surgery.

That would be a valuable core message to take away from all this.

No matter what the cost?

So its fine to throw a grenade into your family and act in an appalling way emotionally manipulating and controlling way, which is definitely unhealthy for all concerned, and no one is supposed to say a word nor find alternative ways to deal with the situation, resolve tensions nor clear up failures in communication?

Give the other thread thats been running over the last few days, it becomes more and more apparent that the upholding of all of this is about people who want to look nice and kind acting in a way which is harmful and creates all kind of stigma and barriers to very vulnerable people and destroys the support they have.

Fuck that.

I'm sick of the virtue signalling.

We should not accept 'no matter what the cost' as a phrase. There are many many possible resolutions and underlying issues at the heart of this - which the Cass Review has picked up on - that people spouting 'no matter what the cost' don't want to see or acknowledge because it makes them look bad to admit they've been acting in a way that might be contributing to harm.

Once you see it, it can't be unseen.

You know that harms in society occur most, when people deliberately ignore the problem or pretend its not there, thus allowing it to continue - and there are many historical precedents for this.

People who say 'no matter what the cost' are very much complicit and very much part of a huge problem.

It needs to be said. And it needs to be heard.

You can't be being 'true to yourself' if it relies on lies and other people propping up a fantasy often throw coercive techiques.

Thats abusive.

I was a girl who loved wearing boys’ clothes and playing football and had short year.

didn’t have to say I was actually male to do this.!

"It is about a tiny minority of people, mostly men, forcing an agenda of (largely) misogyny and censorship on everyone". Actually @viques, according to the census in 2021, the number of people who identified as trans women was about the same as the number of those who identified as trans men.