Positive aspects of trans?

[eatfigs]

Now that one of the most powerful men on the planet has put his weight behind ending the influence of gender identity ideological beliefs on American government policy, I think it's fair to assume this is the beginning of the end for trans activism, not just in the US but globally.

Maybe a eulogy is premature but it got me thinking about some of the arguably more positive aspects of trans that will be on the way out too.

Such as, I like their underlying message of non-conformity with sex roles. Why shouldn't we all wear what we please, regardless of our sex? There's nothing wrong with a man wearing a dress or a woman wearing trousers and a shirt.

I also like how much of the original intent, back when trans was considered a manifestation of gender dysphoria, was to be accommodating to individuals with a medical condition that caused them significant distress. Like we make accommodations for many other vulnerable or marginalised groups.

Finally I appreciate how trans gives many people a sense of community in a world that in hostile to individuals who don't conform to society's expectations. Trans activism in particular gives them a purpose.

I still fundamentally disagree with their beliefs, and everything positive I mentioned above is sullied with all the harmful nonsense they layered on top of it. But I just wanted to give a thoughtful nod to the underdog on its way down.

Did I say there was? Anyway, you need to know who they are, for...reasons.

There are no positive aspects that I can see, certainly not if you are a woman or a girl.

Wear dresses, make up, high heels etc, but that does not make you a woman, it just makes you a man wearing stereotypical women's clothing. Just as me not wearing a dress and heels doesn't make me a man.

They can mutilate their bodies if they want to, still not a woman. Sex is an immutable biological fact in humans.

I agree with this.

Amongst my friends who were leftists/ skeptics/ humanists its really shown light on who wore these beliefs as identities and who had these beliefs as convictions.

Those who held these beliefs as tribal identities fell for trans ideology. Those who had convictions were able to see how trans ideology was in opposition to their convictions.

Those who had convictions, not just mere identities, had thought through their convictions and why they held them, and were able to think through whether gender ideology was compatible with their convictions or not. And were able to conclude it did not.

Oh come on OP. They're looking at people like Kurt Cobain wearing a dress and saying he was actually a transwoman.

It's the exact opposite of what you claim.

Trump coming down heavily on trans ideaology is not going to suppress it. Ideas have power which grows under adverse conditions. This is not the beginning of the end.

I disagree fundamentally with your analysis of the benefits. Gender nonconformity is brilliant - many 80s pop icons trailblazed and thise of us who grew up in the 70s 80s and 90s had plenty of gender nonconforming role models. Trans ideology rewrites that history to say that those who broke out of their stereotype box actually belong in this different box, but we must uphold the stereotype boxes.

I agree with all the pp (too many to name) who have, once again, patiently explained to OP how gender identity is built on sexism and gender-stereotypes

i genuinely wish I hadn’t had to spend time and money fighting this thing. Just think of the progress we could have made as a society if we hadn’t had to defend ourselves against this?

Gender identity is a terrible concept with no redeeming features, and I’ll be very happy once everyone feels empowered to speak the truth

I agree Trump isn’t helping much, at least not directly. People will just associate it with his general slew of OTT ideas, and he’s not doing it out of support for the gay and GNC people it’s; harming. You can’t just un-trans thousands of kids overnight who’ve been told they can change sex and it’s the answer to all their problems - they need support and medical care, whether mental or physical. And if you’re going to banish gender woo from the curriculum, policy and law you have to replace it with somethIng not just factual and accurate, but that deals with the situation the woo has created.

However I do think it does have an effect for someone with his power and fame to stand up and say “this is clearly bollocks” - it allows other people to think it. Of course many will kneejerk oppose what he says/become more entrenched, but there are also many who do know it’s bollocks but are scared to say so. I hope it has a dam-breaking effect more generally.

Finally I appreciate how trans gives many people a sense of community in a world that in hostile to individuals who don't conform to society's expectations. Trans activism in particular gives them a purpose

I don't think it works as a positive by itself. You could say that about any group that would be harmful to women's rights, such as incels.

"Such as, I like their underlying message of non-conformity with sex roles. Why shouldn't we all wear what we please, regardless of our sex? There's nothing wrong with a man wearing a dress or a woman wearing trousers and a shirt."

Isn't it quite the reverse if trans women are women, no questions asked then men aren't wearing dresses are they? I would welcome this if true.

Also men wearing feminine clothing isn't a new thing related to the trans movement, it's been around for decades. Anyone remember David Beckham and the sarong trend or the city boys all wearing pink shirts with colourful ties in the 90's.

The trans movement is quite the opposite of blurring sex lines, it relies on steroetyping actually. Regressive IMO.

It's a fair comment. We all need a hobby, be that playing bridge, crocheting, cycling, joining a netball team or meeting up with likeminded people to don balaclavas and threaten women with rape or murder for wanting to meet without men.

Its hard to see positives within an ideology, one of whose first moves was to redefine what they actually are and then tried to force everyone else to agree with them and did this by jumping on the back of the LGB rights.

From my point of view, the only positive thing is that it brought me here 😀

There are too many downsides to list, although, to be fair, those have been driven by TRAs. Their agenda (whatever that is, and I suspect that a desire to put women in their place is the main reason) and the hijacking of the LGB cause (such a good money-spinner), has created many victims who include those few people with a genuine gender dysphoria.

I suppose it has shown up politicians and firms who jumped on the bandwagon, without engaging their little grey cells. Any idea what the next fashionable cause might be, once this stack of cards has fallen?

I'm a bit suprised that there hasn't been more of an effort from trans people to distance themselves from the excesses of trans rights activists/activism.
I think trans people would get a much better reception from elements like gender critical by distancing themsleves from the more aggressive and radical elements purporting to fight for their rights. Things would be a lot less febrile for a start.
I think part of the problem is "trans" is too large of an umbrella. It covers everything from the trans person just trying to live their life to the very worst violent and sexual predators. They all claim the same label, and there is no more qualification than self identification.

Positive aspect of trans? Is - there is no such thing as trans - simples!

Apparently the link I shared is not approved - the anti mn subreddit is not selling the positivity (thread started today), very upset group of people.

I like their underlying message of non-conformity with sex roles. Why shouldn't we all wear what we please, regardless of our sex? There's nothing wrong with a man wearing a dress or a woman wearing trousers and a shirt.

There is no reason why not and not sure it has ever been a widely held belief or problem. Throughout history men have worn more flamboyant styles and colours than women. No one has a problem with women wearing trousers or men wearing a skirt or dress e.g. David Beckham, Harry styles, and David Bowie wore practically anything. I work with a man who sometimes comes into the office in a skirt. It is all cool.

Check out 80's rock bands for hairstyle and makeup ideas!

But wearing a skirt does not make you a women and wearing trousers does not make you a man. It is this enforcement of traditional gender roles which is driving the trans ideology as the way forward when in fact it is looking backwards.

I like their underlying message of non-conformity with sex roles. Why shouldn't we all wear what we please, regardless of our sex? There's nothing wrong with a man wearing a dress or a woman wearing trousers and a shirt.

I'm not sure what planet you are living on. They all all about stereotypes. We have gone backwards not forwards in terms of stereotypes.

In lots of cultures past and present, men have worn dress-like clothes. A dress or skirt is just a leg-covering garment without separate legs - both men and women have the same basic leg arrangement and there's nothing sexed or gendered about it inherently. Kilts, djellabas, sarongs, togas, etc etc. They're just clothes.

But in modern societies, "men wearing women's clothes" is not really about that, or not usually - it's about transgression and is a common fetish, while that's not true the other way round. Women wear "men's clothes" for reasons of practicality or rejecting stereotypes and wear everyday stuff, not a stereotype of masulinity. Men seem to do it to deliberately cross a boundary and transgress because it's seen as shameful and sexual. That's why it's all about the lacy underwear, heels, minis and make-up. Not what women wear day to day.

For the ones who can "pass" as the opposite sex and who are also thoughtful human beings, being trans can result in a deep understanding of just how artificial the whole gender superstructure is. We need more people who see that, not fewer, whichever route they take to get there!

I do. When men wear what women would get sacked for, into the office, that is a boundary crossed. When they go into the streets wearing Little Bo Peep outfits, that is a boundary crossed.

We may not personally have issues with men crossing boundaries, but they aren't wearing it for comfort or to feel good about themselves. They are wearing it for other reasons. And they are forcing everyone around them to participate in their sex lives.

So no. Presenting however you like needs to stay in the confines of their own homes.

What is positive about gender stereotypes?

Now ask what is positive about gender stereotypes with medicalisation which is known to have significant life changing side effects and extreme cosmetic surgery which is known to have significant rates of complications?

Then ask what is positive about gender stereotypes with medicalisation which is known to have significant life changing side effects and extreme cosmetic surgery which is known to have significant rates of complications? AND a pattern of coercive and emotional manipulation techniques to force social compliance of close family members and in the workplace? Accompanied with a social trend of persuading young adults into smearing the character and reputation of their family and encouraging family alienation?

Then ask what is positive about creating a sacred cast who can not be questioned over their behaviour and intentions AND by unintended consequences also enable people with a nefarious agenda to also behave in questionable ways without the ability to hold them accountable?

Honestly.

I do despair at attempts to try and pretend the whole thing isn't deeply regressive and full of grifters looking to exploit vulnerable people at the direct and obvious expense of women.

It's taken us back decades in terms of how we think about equality.

A thread calling all trans people nutters and narcissists?

That's quite the cruel generalization.

Believing in women only spaces is one thing. Disparaging an entire group of people as perverts is quite the other.

There is very little positive about modern trans movement. It is destroying childhoods, breaking families apart and making single sex spaces unsafe. People are paying to have their bodies butchered in the name of trans only to regret it later. Any ideaology which makes, and can get away with violence and death threats, to anyone who dares challenge them is dangerous.

Gender stereotypes have been around for centuries and this is just a modern version of making sure they stay around a bit longer. It is one of the very few things I am glad Trump got in for.

Just as well that no one has done that then.