Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Defending Women from Gender Ideology Extremism and Restoring Biological Truth

1000 replies

IwantToRetire · 21/01/2025 18:51

Purpose.

Ideologues who deny the biological reality of sex have increasingly used legal and other socially coercive means to permit men to self-identify as women and gain access to intimate single-sex spaces and activities designed for women, from women’s domestic abuse shelters to women’s workplace showers. This is wrong. Efforts to eradicate the biological reality of sex fundamentally attack women by depriving them of their dignity, safety, and well-being. The erasure of sex in language and policy has a corrosive impact not just on women but on the validity of the entire American system. Basing Federal policy on truth is critical to scientific inquiry, public safety, morale, and trust in government itself.

This unhealthy road is paved by an ongoing and purposeful attack against the ordinary and longstanding use and understanding of biological and scientific terms, replacing the immutable biological reality of sex with an internal, fluid, and subjective sense of self unmoored from biological facts. Invalidating the true and biological category of “woman” improperly transforms laws and policies designed to protect sex-based opportunities into laws and policies that undermine them, replacing longstanding, cherished legal rights and values with an identity-based, inchoate social concept.

This will defend women’s rights and protect freedom of conscience by using clear and accurate language and policies that recognize women are biologically female, and men are biologically male.

Policy and Definitions.

The policy is to recognize two sexes, male and female. These sexes are not changeable and are grounded in fundamental and incontrovertible reality:

(a) “Sex” shall refer to an individual’s immutable biological classification as either male or female. “Sex” is not a synonym for and does not include the concept of “gender identity.”

(b) “Women” or “woman” and “girls” or “girl” shall mean adult and juvenile human females, respectively.

(c) “Men” or “man” and “boys” or “boy” shall mean adult and juvenile human males, respectively.

(d) “Female” means a person belonging, at conception, to the sex that produces the large reproductive cell.

(e) “Male” means a person belonging, at conception, to the sex that produces the small reproductive cell.

(f) “Gender ideology” replaces the biological category of sex with an ever-shifting concept of self-assessed gender identity, permitting the false claim that males can identify as and thus become women and vice versa, and requiring all institutions of society to regard this false claim as true. Gender ideology includes the idea that there is a vast spectrum of genders that are disconnected from one’s sex. Gender ideology is internally inconsistent, in that it diminishes sex as an identifiable or useful category but nevertheless maintains that it is possible for a person to be born in the wrong sexed body.

(g) “Gender identity” reflects a fully internal and subjective sense of self, disconnected from biological reality and sex and existing on an infinite continuum, that does not provide a meaningful basis for identification and cannot be recognized as a replacement for sex.

Recognizing Women Are Biologically Distinct From Men.

Full statement text at https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/defending-women-from-gender-ideology-extremism-and-restoring-biological-truth-to-the-federal-government/

Every news outlet is reporting this as anti trans legisliaton.

Not one has reported it is about women's rights.

That's why I started this thread, although there are others as hoping the search engines will pick it up.

Seems that women's rights are so unimportant to anyone, that even when there is a political statement about them, the media reports it is about something else.

Defending Women From Gender Ideology Extremism And Restoring Biological Truth To The Federal Government – The White House

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including section 7301 of title 5, United

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/defending-women-from-gender-ideology-extremism-and-restoring-biological-truth-to-the-federal-government/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
Lostcat · 27/01/2025 18:43

teentantrums · 27/01/2025 18:39

I was quoting your message about DSDs, not trans people. Why do you keep on deflecting?

? Sorry what’s the question exactly?

hihelenhi · 27/01/2025 18:43

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 18:18

is a fucking liar

how? Because I use words in a way you don’t like?

No, because you're absolutely full of shit. As you have been on here for two days now.

KateBAnd3 · 27/01/2025 18:49

SpidersAreShitheads · 22/01/2025 09:22

Genuine question - aren’t these kind of references usually made about sex at birth though? Rather than in utero?

You’re not wrong about sex at conception but it does seem strange that’s the point they’ve chosen to reference rather than the usual reference of birth sex?

I may be completely wrong though - happy to be corrected by someone more knowledgeable.

Presumably it's stated this way to counter the ridiculous 'assigned at birth' phrase.

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 18:50

I feel sorry for @IwantToRetire

This thread should be about how to protect the rights of women going forward but it has been taken over by lostcats who has no interest in protecting the rights of women.

I think that we need to be clear on the reasons that we need sex based protection and the reasons that those protections conflict directly with the wishes of trans women.

We have to keep reverting to the reason for our oppression being based on our sexed bodies and assumptions about our reproductive rights. Single sex spaces were created to protect us from our oppressor class and, in the case of sports, to provide fairness. Keeping these spaces for women only is essential in fighting against oppression against women. Trans women are part of the oppressor class rather than part of the oppressed.

No matter how anyone defines gender a subset of males are not oppressed due to assumptions or realities based on their sexed bodies. They may feel that they should be treated differently based upon their perceptions of their own gender identities, but that is something entirely different than the reason that single sex spaces and sports exist.

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 18:57

No matter how anyone defines gender a subset of males are not oppressed due to assumptions or realities based on their sexed bodies being FEMALE

Actually I just want to slightly change this to add the word 'female' - because they are not oppressed for having female sexed bodies, they may feel that they are oppressed due to their sexed bodies in the sense that they do not align with their gender identity or cognitive sex to use lostcats phrase.

So this is very different from the form of oppression that women face based on the reality of our sexed bodies.

Myalternate · 27/01/2025 18:59

To summarise…

Being Transgender is an internal sense of being. Nothing physical, nothing that can be seen on X-ray, MRI, Scans…from blood works, tissue samples. Nothing to confirm their sex was anything other than exactly as determined at birth.

We protect the Rights of Women by not pandering to people that believe their internal sense of being overrides biological fact.

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 19:02

again with the choice of language - “pandering to people”. Regardless of your (lack of) understanding of the scientific issues at hand- What does this convey about your attitudes towards trans people do you think?

hihelenhi · 27/01/2025 19:09

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 19:02

again with the choice of language - “pandering to people”. Regardless of your (lack of) understanding of the scientific issues at hand- What does this convey about your attitudes towards trans people do you think?

Edited

You think you've been "scientific?" Even close to that?

What do you think your demonstration of your lack of scientific rigour, comprehension failure and absence of logic says about "trans people?" Do you imagine you're helping their 'cause' in some way?

Own worst enemies comes to mind. Give it a rest.

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 19:10

hihelenhi · 27/01/2025 19:09

You think you've been "scientific?" Even close to that?

What do you think your demonstration of your lack of scientific rigour, comprehension failure and absence of logic says about "trans people?" Do you imagine you're helping their 'cause' in some way?

Own worst enemies comes to mind. Give it a rest.

You think you've been "scientific?" Even close to that?

yes absolutely I have.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/01/2025 19:13

No @Lostcat you've simply pushed your own pseudoscience.

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 19:13

Obviously I am not disputing that trans women may face difficulties such as harassment, based on their gender identities, but they are already protected by other laws in the UK.

It is single sex spaces and sports that are the contentious issues.

Edited to add that it should be 'trans people' not trans women, trans identifying females obviously also exist.

teentantrums · 27/01/2025 19:17

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 19:02

again with the choice of language - “pandering to people”. Regardless of your (lack of) understanding of the scientific issues at hand- What does this convey about your attitudes towards trans people do you think?

Edited

What would you call prioritizing an inner feeling of gender that cannot be measured, examined or accurately defined over womens biology-based reality? Pandering seems very apt.

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 19:19

teentantrums · 27/01/2025 19:17

What would you call prioritizing an inner feeling of gender that cannot be measured, examined or accurately defined over womens biology-based reality? Pandering seems very apt.

Again- not about “inner feelings”. Not about “prioritising” people “over” other people. Drawing a distinction with both “biology” and “reality” is false

hihelenhi · 27/01/2025 19:24

Well, except it is. That's the thing.

Are "cognitions" internal to the person or externally observable?

And what relation do they bear to the external material reality experienced by actual female people, who are demonstrably, observably female?

We've already established with little doubt that you actively and zealously prioritise male "cognitions" about their supposed femalehood over actual females. Which of course is an entirely misogynist perspective.

Have you always put men's wishes first at all times?

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 19:25

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 19:13

Obviously I am not disputing that trans women may face difficulties such as harassment, based on their gender identities, but they are already protected by other laws in the UK.

It is single sex spaces and sports that are the contentious issues.

Edited to add that it should be 'trans people' not trans women, trans identifying females obviously also exist.

Edited

the term “trans identifying” is misleading and discriminatory. Trans people don’t “identify” as trans, they simply are trans.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/01/2025 19:25

It's absolutely about "inner feelings". As part of a disputed ideology.

teentantrums · 27/01/2025 19:25

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 19:19

Again- not about “inner feelings”. Not about “prioritising” people “over” other people. Drawing a distinction with both “biology” and “reality” is false

Edited

If it is not about biological reality, it IS about inner feelings. You can't have it both ways.

teentantrums · 27/01/2025 19:26

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 19:25

the term “trans identifying” is misleading and discriminatory. Trans people don’t “identify” as trans, they simply are trans.

And when do they become trans? Is it a decision? Is it after surgery? Have they always been trans?

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 19:27

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 19:25

the term “trans identifying” is misleading and discriminatory. Trans people don’t “identify” as trans, they simply are trans.

well remove the word identifying then. The point remains the same.

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 19:28

teentantrums · 27/01/2025 19:26

And when do they become trans? Is it a decision? Is it after surgery? Have they always been trans?

I suggest you RTFT

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 19:29

So lostcats everyone can be accommodated free from harassment and discrimination at law AND women can retain single sex spaces.

teentantrums · 27/01/2025 19:29

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 19:28

I suggest you RTFT

I have. That is how I know your arguments are contradictory and poorly argued....and also why you always tell people to rtft when they ask you a direct question.

hihelenhi · 27/01/2025 19:30

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 19:28

I suggest you RTFT

Oh, I've no doubt they have. As have the rest of us.

hihelenhi · 27/01/2025 19:31

teentantrums · 27/01/2025 19:29

I have. That is how I know your arguments are contradictory and poorly argued....and also why you always tell people to rtft when they ask you a direct question.

Funny that.

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 19:33

teentantrums · 27/01/2025 19:29

I have. That is how I know your arguments are contradictory and poorly argued....and also why you always tell people to rtft when they ask you a direct question.

if you read the thread then there’s no need to ask me this question:
And when do they become trans? Is it a decision? Is it after surgery? Have they always been trans?

You already know my answer because I already answered it.

You are perfectly entitled to disagree with my answer of course, but no reason to repeatedly demand I repeat myself, it’s just disingenuous. And not productive

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.
Swipe left for the next trending thread