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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trump announces executive order that says legally there are only 2 genders (hmmm did he mis-speak and meant sex?)

1000 replies

IwantToRetire · 20/01/2025 17:39

Well this will add to the confusion.

Have just heard him use the word gender, even though earlier news reports had said he would say only 2 sexes.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/trump-sign-order-proclaiming-only-160700963.html

Trump to sign order proclaiming there are only two sexes

Donald Trump's government is set to recognise only two genders, male and female. The move will come as part of a swathe of executive orders the incoming president will sign on his first day back in the White House. It is one of two branded as "common...

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/trump-sign-order-proclaiming-only-160700963.html

OP posts:
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29
Shortshriftandlethal · 23/01/2025 12:04

Greyskybluesky · 23/01/2025 11:44

But you've literally just said that the news doesn't report these issues and no stats are kept on these matters in your country.
So "reading the news" isn't going to tell you anything about this, is it?
Are your feminist groups the sort that admit all women?

Yeh, like 'Cisters Uncut' or similar.

Shortshriftandlethal · 23/01/2025 12:05

leftorrightnow · 23/01/2025 11:17

okay I can google if that’s easier just thought perhaps you had specific ones I mind and wouldn’t be too much work t paste a link but okay I will do my googling 😅 fyi i dont live in The UK, but In a european country where there - interestingly - is much less focus on the issue (less media induced attention) and here they don’t even have stats like that - in fact the trans issue is a total non issue here, guess that’s also why I find it so weird w the high level of attention to the issue in UK and US and am questioning if this is media created and if such by e which media and which political interests benefits from the attention to the issue.

(Relocated some years ago)

Edited

You in Ireland, by any chance....that bastion of women's rights.

EasternStandard · 23/01/2025 12:06

leftorrightnow · 23/01/2025 11:33

This is so revealing of the trend of right wing media attention on the trans issue. His is one of the first trans criminals you heard of. You literally weren’t ware on the issue until it was brought to your attention by….Mumsnet and the Daily Mail (one bbc article in there too that right).

this is such a small issue but the right wing has an interest in blowing it out of proportion

You’re incorrect here

Women have been talking about the need for privacy, dignity and safety for years on this site.

It’s very grassroots and linked to children’s safeguarding too

Drfosters · 23/01/2025 12:09

leftorrightnow · 23/01/2025 11:05

Aha we are getting closer to what seems to be the desire of many on this thread. Call transgender people out. Good old direct harassment made legal.

in your opinion, should transgender people be allowed to exist at all? Be allowed to walk the streets or be your colleague or your children’s teacher or should their very existence simply be made illegal?

what does that even mean ‘not be allowed to exist’?

Everyone can dress how they please in society. I don’t care whether someone wears trousers or a dress or makeup or not. It is just someone’s appearance. I don’t care if you are a man who feels feminine or a woman who feels masculine. It affects no one.

but there is no intellectual reasoning to say ‘well if you won’t let me use the toilets of the gender I feel then you are saying I don’t exist’

You are the sex you are born. Fact. The EO simply clarifies that. It doesn’t make anyone illegal and yes anyone who is violating the space of the opposite sex should be called out on it. That is not harassment.

haterobotcrap · 23/01/2025 12:11

It's like that guy in congress that everyone was frothing over when Nancy Mace demanded single sex toilets be kept single sex - there were gender neutral AND private bathrooms as well as the men's available, but no. That's not enough. Because really they want access to unconsenting women and children in a place the decent boundary-respecting men won't be. What else can it be with so many other options available?

GailBlancheViola · 23/01/2025 12:24

haterobotcrap · 23/01/2025 12:11

It's like that guy in congress that everyone was frothing over when Nancy Mace demanded single sex toilets be kept single sex - there were gender neutral AND private bathrooms as well as the men's available, but no. That's not enough. Because really they want access to unconsenting women and children in a place the decent boundary-respecting men won't be. What else can it be with so many other options available?

Power and control is what it is no more no less. Exactly what is/was being done to the nurse in Fife and the nurses in Darlington, a favourite tactic of a certain type of male.

OverThinkingAnja · 23/01/2025 12:27

EasternStandard · 23/01/2025 12:06

You’re incorrect here

Women have been talking about the need for privacy, dignity and safety for years on this site.

It’s very grassroots and linked to children’s safeguarding too

Yea, that post is very much “tell me you know nothing about feminism without telling me you know nothing about feminism”

Greyskybluesky · 23/01/2025 12:29

OverThinkingAnja · 23/01/2025 12:27

Yea, that post is very much “tell me you know nothing about feminism without telling me you know nothing about feminism”

And yet gender equality and women’s rights is apparently part of that poster's job 🙄

dynamiccactus · 23/01/2025 13:00

I suspect this has a lot more with putting women in their place than protecting them. However, keeping the Lia Thomas's of this world out of womens' sport could be a useful side effect.

JanesLittleGirl · 23/01/2025 13:06

It is interesting that @leftorrightnow started out with a "Trump is Beelzebub's evil brother; everything he does is bad and this EO is particularly bad for women" position but has migrated to the common-or-garden TRA talking points.

teawamutu · 23/01/2025 13:40

JanesLittleGirl · 23/01/2025 13:06

It is interesting that @leftorrightnow started out with a "Trump is Beelzebub's evil brother; everything he does is bad and this EO is particularly bad for women" position but has migrated to the common-or-garden TRA talking points.

Tried changing the record, turned out that record was also a shit record, reverted to type.

Many such cases. Sad!

Myalternate · 23/01/2025 13:42

I for one am so grateful to the POTUS for introducing the EO that makes it clear for all and any purpose that men are men and women are women and those with disorders of thought, will just have to suck it up. 😁 and no, I don’t care how upset or marginalised they might feel because of it. In fact, it makes me thankful that sense and truth is returning. I will now be less fearful that my children might end up indoctrinated.
Call me a transphobe
Call me a Nazi
Call me right wing
Call me anything you like, it means absolutely….nothing. 😆

HTH

haterobotcrap · 23/01/2025 13:52

Myalternate · 23/01/2025 13:42

I for one am so grateful to the POTUS for introducing the EO that makes it clear for all and any purpose that men are men and women are women and those with disorders of thought, will just have to suck it up. 😁 and no, I don’t care how upset or marginalised they might feel because of it. In fact, it makes me thankful that sense and truth is returning. I will now be less fearful that my children might end up indoctrinated.
Call me a transphobe
Call me a Nazi
Call me right wing
Call me anything you like, it means absolutely….nothing. 😆

HTH

Am guessing this probably sums up the feelings of all those many Americans who voted Trump quite resoundingly into office.

lechiffre55 · 23/01/2025 13:56

haterobotcrap · 23/01/2025 13:52

Am guessing this probably sums up the feelings of all those many Americans who voted Trump quite resoundingly into office.

Some believe that the best recruiters for the far right are the far left.

Snowypeaks · 23/01/2025 13:59

dynamiccactus · 23/01/2025 13:00

I suspect this has a lot more with putting women in their place than protecting them. However, keeping the Lia Thomas's of this world out of womens' sport could be a useful side effect.

I suspect this has a lot more with putting women in their place than protecting them.

Can you explain what you mean, with reference to the provisions in the Executive Order?

SionnachRuadh · 23/01/2025 14:23

haterobotcrap · 23/01/2025 12:11

It's like that guy in congress that everyone was frothing over when Nancy Mace demanded single sex toilets be kept single sex - there were gender neutral AND private bathrooms as well as the men's available, but no. That's not enough. Because really they want access to unconsenting women and children in a place the decent boundary-respecting men won't be. What else can it be with so many other options available?

Sarah McBride, newly elected Congressperson from Delaware. And more important than you'd think, because McBride worked in Beau Biden's office and bonded with Joe and Jill after Beau's death.

That's why Joe Biden, to the extent that his brain still works, is a true believer. I don't think he understands the fine points of queer theory, but he wants to stand by his late son's friend.

Which is honourable in a way, and I understand the motivation. But you can't build public policy on that. And you certainly can't apply a left good, right bad filter. Nancy Mace is a rape survivor, and Joe Biden infamously used to jump in the shower with his daughter. Which one better understands women's need for single sex spaces?

DeanElderberry · 23/01/2025 14:31

Call me a Nazi too, though you'd be confusing the history, but if we went back to calling people transvestites or cross-dressers we would be accurate and remove the 'gender' nonsense from the argument.

I'd sooner not do that, because it implies there are 'women's clothes' and men's clothes', but it would give the fancy dress aficionados something to work with.

OldCrone · 23/01/2025 17:02

leftorrightnow · 23/01/2025 11:33

This is so revealing of the trend of right wing media attention on the trans issue. His is one of the first trans criminals you heard of. You literally weren’t ware on the issue until it was brought to your attention by….Mumsnet and the Daily Mail (one bbc article in there too that right).

this is such a small issue but the right wing has an interest in blowing it out of proportion

You literally weren’t ware on the issue until it was brought to your attention by [newspapers/TV/radio/web].

Well, no, I don't know what's happening in the world until I read about it in the newspaper, or see it on TV or hear it on the radio or read something online. How do you find out what's happening in the world? Is there another way that I'm not aware of? Word of mouth isn't really enough these days.

OldCrone · 23/01/2025 17:03

GailBlancheViola · 23/01/2025 11:36

this is such a small issue but the right wing has an interest in blowing it out of proportion

A small issue?? Wow. A woman thought she was going to die at his hands and to you it is a small issue? What is that woman victim to you? Collateral damage?

I think the only women that matter to that poster are the ones with penises.

OldCrone · 23/01/2025 17:05

Mmmnotsure · 23/01/2025 11:41

Back to another of my questions that @leftorrightnow doesn't seem to have answered:

My acceptable number for women and girls coming to harm as a result of self-identifying "transwomen" - men who id as women - using single sex spaces is zero. What is yours?

The answer is always n+1.

DeanElderberry · 23/01/2025 17:05

Well, it might be through news of the disastrous action taken by an already troubled young person in ones circle. Or observation of the increasingly deranged habits of a neighbour.

thirdfiddle · 23/01/2025 17:44

The overall sample of transpeople in prisons is too low to be statistically significant.
There were over 100 recorded transpeople in prisons and over 50 with sexual offences recorded last time I checked MoJ data unless I've got very confused about the figures. That would be plenty for statistical significance. If the thread's still going, I'll check the latest numbers and give you a significance level.

leftorrightnow · 23/01/2025 17:55

I never said I think it’s ok for anyone to harm anyone at all, right? Think we are clear on that. Not men harming women or women harming men, however they identify.

yes 50 (or 1) woman hurt is one too many. But by the sounds of trump, the right wing press and most people on this board, you think that we were talking about an epidemic of violence committed by transgender people. No other issues gets so much uptake.

not the much much higher number of DV committed by male identifying men against women. Not the lack
if affordable childcare, or equal pay, or decent maternity services.

no. It’s the tiny, niche issue of transgender people that really seems to get you lot fired up.

a few interesting pieces for you all to look at

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/trans-woman-daily-mail-article-123469046

Transgender Flag hold in the sky

She Used the Bathroom -- And Became a Target of the Culture War

Sophie McAllister says a harmless encounter with a woman in a bathroom at a London pub ended up in the pages of the British press.

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/trans-woman-daily-mail-article-1234690463

EarthSight · 23/01/2025 18:01

NotNatacha · 20/01/2025 18:11

BBC1 6pm news has just shown him saying, “There are (only) two genders: male and female.”

Not “men and women”. I think that’s clearer, is it?

Actually it's better that he specified male & female. It makes it clear he's referring to sex.

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