Trump announces executive order that says legally there are only 2 genders (hmmm did he mis-speak and meant sex?)

[IwantToRetire]

Well this will add to the confusion.

Have just heard him use the word gender, even though earlier news reports had said he would say only 2 sexes.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/trump-sign-order-proclaiming-only-160700963.html

This popped up today. From Sartre. Seemed relevant.

And just because it’s probably tediously necessary, no one is saying anyone is an antisemite. It’s a parallel

@OverThinkingAnja
Am chuffed that you went straight to Sartre from my post ;)

'If you press them too closely" - yes, I note what arguments/actual data @leftorrightnow ignores, eg the prison stats for men/men id'ing as women.

How would we keep them out of women's toilets? Why would we have to? If they know that they are not supposed to use women's toilets then they wouldn't use them, would they?

Decent people don't have to be policed by others in order to behave decently. If you think that the male transgender people would still use the women's toilets even knowing they're not supposed to, you obviously don't think that they're decent people.

If there's one demographic that's unsafe in men's toilets, it's boys. There is still a non-trivial number of dodgy men who like to hang around toilets in the hope of meeting boys in a state of undress. I know at least one adult man who avoids public toilets because of an experience in his teens. I would bet there are more men and boys like that than there are transwomen.

But the solution to that isn't to allow teenage boys to use women's toilets. It isn't to allow my friend to declare his trauma anxiety and get an ID card saying that he's lovely and harmless - though he is - and on that basis can go into women's toilets. He wouldn't dream of doing that anyway.

The solution is safer men's toilets. It's not to expect women to budge up and surrender hard-won single sex provision.

Here is a clearly very vulnerable and marginalised woman trying to shut down an official Minnesota House Public Safety Committee meeting. Can't wait to see her in the changing rooms!

https://x.com/WalterHudson/status/1881919611723215358?t=j5IMZkMhv0IiAnkvAaN2w&s=19

oh that's perfect Anja. What a bullseye.

He doesn't happen to describe ways to get them to stop does he.

What? So when I was at two pride parades in different cities in Europe last year with lesbians in attendance was I dreaming??

I think they want to identify as women so want to use women’s facilities

Well given they could all be men, who knows?

Tough. Reality exists.

And their want overrides women's reality - how exactly?

In what way is it practical to organise society around identity feelings?

Sigh. Everyone can find a few things online. Where is the data of violence or harassment by transgender people on a national level? Love to see it. Prison stats. They are what you’d call statistically insignificant. The overall sample of transpeople in prisons is too low to be statistically significant.

which brings me to an interesting question - how many of you all have had a negative experience with a transgender person in your own life? Or even know someone who has? where is this all
coming from? Your own lived experiences or media created moral panic?

Press all you want. And ask all you want. Happy to take questions 😊

It's really not an interesting question. It's actually incredibly tedious and has been addressed many times before.

As I've just said on another thread:

Women can still care about what happens to other women and girls even if they're not in the same situation
I don't imagine I'll ever win a top sporting medal or go to prison. I still care very much about the women who do.
I've never knowingly come into contact with a member of the Taliban but I still care very much about the women in Afghanistan.

I've seen many AGP men dressed in pornified versions of woman's dress who have made both me and my children uncomfortable and have had me avoiding toilets where they might be.

Being used as an unconsenting prop in another person's fetish isn't something most people like - even men who are not usually at actual physical risk.

The MoJ stats on crimes by trans identifying men make for very interesting reading. But you're not interested in reading evidence, are you? You just want to fill up a thread telling women that wanting sex-based rights, child safe-guarding and evidence-based medicine is a "moral panic".

Aha we are getting closer to what seems to be the desire of many on this thread. Call transgender people out. Good old direct harassment made legal.

in your opinion, should transgender people be allowed to exist at all? Be allowed to walk the streets or be your colleague or your children’s teacher or should their very existence simply be made illegal?

@leftorrightnow I'm one of many, many women on here who's had a negative experience with a transwoman in my own life. It doesn't mean I think all transwomen are bad, any more than my negative experiences with men who don't identify as women has made me think all men are bad.

But men, as a class, are far more dangerous than women as a class. And the prison stats show that men who identify as women act in a way that proves they are men, not women.

The sad fact is that our government figures show that over 70% of transwomen in prison in the UK have committed rape, sexual assault or other violent crimes.
More than 70 per cent of transgender prisoners are in for sex offences or violent crimes

Edited for typos

Very interested why don’t you put a link here so I can check them out?

From the article I linked:
"More than 70 per cent of transgender prisoners in British jails are serving sentences for sex offences and violent crimes, government figures have revealed.
At least 181 of the 244 transgender inmates, more than 74 per cent, are in jail for crimes including rape, forcing under-age children into having sex, grievous bodily harm and robbery.
Up to 144 transgender women, men who identify as females, are housed in male prisons while five are currently imprisoned in female jails - including at least one top-security institution where murderers and terrorists are being detained.
The high levels of violent crimes among male prisoners who identify as women demonstrates why they should not be detained in female prisons, women’s rights campaigners argue."

You know what MoJ stands for, right?

And so, as the sun sinks slowly in the west, we leave this island paradise...

946 replies - not much more kilometrage left in this thread.
It's been interesting interacting with you, leftorrightnow. It's given us an opportunity to go over many of our ideas and opinions, and what we base them on - you'll have gathered by now that we don't like baseless stuff here, we like to gather evidence and think things through.

I know you haven't liked all the answers - in fact I doubt you read some of the answers as you kept asking the same questions over and over - but you were taken seriously and answered in detail, and generally speaking with respect.
I admit that patience wore thin sometimes after the same question was asked again and again after it had been answered😒and after it began to look like you were scolding rather than debating.

I often wonder if disruptors like you who come on here then go away and just carry on saying that we are all awful Home Coynties Daily Mail-reading middle class straight women who hate, and are obsessed with, transpeople.

If you just go away with the same misconceptions about GC feminists - or at least, the GC feminists here on FWR - you will have wasted your time, won't you? Misconceptions in, misconceptions out.

Bye, leftorrightnow, it's been an experience

But they're not women. Do they believe that they've changed sex?

You do realise that women were discussing this issue well before anything about it appeared in the media, don't you?