Trump announces executive order that says legally there are only 2 genders (hmmm did he mis-speak and meant sex?)

[IwantToRetire]

Well this will add to the confusion.

Have just heard him use the word gender, even though earlier news reports had said he would say only 2 sexes.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/trump-sign-order-proclaiming-only-160700963.html

It is not for women to provide a solution for those with trans identities. Like every other civil rights movement before them they should campaign for their own provisions if they don't like what has been been provided.

Colonising women's spaces and women's integrity is not the solution.

Look! You may be new to all of this...but we've been around the block a few times. This is now very tedious., If you are unsure of the arguments and responses to be expected you can scan and search the forum. It is a rich source of all the answers you seek.

I wonder if someone is doing their best simply to take up women's time and energy.

Useful for lurkers for a while, but then diminishing returns.

What interests me is the hordes of men (trans-identifying or not) who didn't routinely turn up in women's toilets despite there being nothing at the door to deter them. In other words the social custom largely policed itself. Yet now we are being told that dividing toilets by sex again would be unworkable without "genital inspections"!

Thankfully - we've only about 100 posts left on this thread before it closes.

The mens or a unisex one. Not the disabled unless they are trans AND disabled.

The one place they can stay the fuck out of is the womens because despite your assertion in an earlier post that transwomen see themselves as women they bloody well know they are men.

And as for how to keep them out we go back to how it's always been until recently. Men, however they dress or think of themselves, go in the men' (or unisex) women go in the women's (or unisex).

Then both sexes when encountering someone of the other sex in the toilets can tell them to get the fuck out without ending up getting called transphobic just because they don't want to pee next to someone of the opposite sex.

What’s wrong with you?

They're not new

Getting back to the EO

The latest talking point seems to be that Trump has made everyone female due to sex being defined at conception.

This is based on th erroneous belief that all feotuses are female for the first 6 weeks

That's hilariously dumb.

Dumb, but pervasive. Just had to point DS1 in the direction of some sources that were a bit more scientifically literate than Tumblr. Bless him, he did actually read them so not a hopeless case

I mean, even if everyone did start out female, it doesn't mean that men are women. What's the logic?

Ahhh, Tumblr... the last known bastion of scientific rigour.

LOL! 😆

For anyone still in doubt and unable to respond to questions and instead just accusing me of flip flopping here are my views clearly stated:

I believe that transgender people should be allowed to exist and to have safe spaces. I do not think it is safe (or dignified as Trump would also say) for transgender women to have to use men’s toilets.

i believe transgender people should have the right to hormone therapy when they are of age (not before 18)

I think there should be a third category for sporting events

for all of you of of different views I have some questions:

• what toilets do you want transgender women to use?

• do you think that transgender people should be allowed to exist at all?

• what would you say to your child if they came home and said they wanted to identify as their non-biological gender?

Transgender people exist, always have, and always will. You can’t control that. You may not like it, but you can’t stop other people from dressing as they please and having hormone therapy or surgery if they want. Not unless you want to make being transgender illegal? Throw them in prison? Is that what you want?

so as these people exist we need to find a way where they can be safe and where women can be safe too. I don’t think that’s too hard, if you cut through all the noise and exaggerated panic.

In my 44 years of life, living in three countries and meeting peoples from all walks of life, I have never ever been molested or bothered in any way shape or from by a trans person. I have, on the other hand, met many transgender people and gay, intersex and two spirit people who have been harassed, subjected to physical violence and discrimination. And contrary to what some on this thread argue, gay people do very much see their cause aligned with the trans community, hence the acronym LGBTQIA+ (in canada including 2 for two spirit). I think the community themselves would be best placed to decide if the causes align, not heterosexual women.

That's good. That he reads them.

edited to add that I do feel a little sorry for kids today who are bombarded with so much misinformation.

(Can't say the same for the adults on this thread though)

The we all start as female is often used as some kind of proof that you can be born in the wrong body for a while now.

Can't remember why it's supposed to prove this but I remember is was nonsense

You do know there are loads of gay people on FWR, don't you, this thread included.

You don't seem to be gay or trans. And you're advocating for things they don't want.

I think I'll add that you should stay in your lane

😃

So then we agree don’t we? I already dad I think there should be unisex toilets AND men and women’s toilets. Problem solved.

My other point though is that if someone has transitioned to be a woman and fully presents as one, how would you then keep them out of women’s toilets, if you can’t tell by looking at them that they’re transgender?

We’re at the asking questions that have been answered and the ‘you don’t want transgender people to exist’ stage then. Comes around earlier every year.

It's like Christmas - tinsel in the shops in September

gay people do very much see their cause aligned with the trans community, ...I think the community themselves would be best placed to decide if the causes align, not heterosexual women.

You really are the gift that keeps on giving, leftorrightnow - now you've given me the opportunity to recycle that vintage lesbian and gay slogan:
How dare you assume I'm heterosexual!

To clarify - I do not want to make it illegal for trans women to use women’s toilets because I think that would be absurd and unenforceable.

I think there should be third spaces provided so whoever wants to use these can. And also always still separate men and women’s facilities. Yes it’s a lot of toilets to build, I do see that. I think probably if the main idea was to prevent violence against women, money would be better spend on DV shelters, but if that’s what’s needed to calm down the terf panic then I guess it’s a good investment

PS would really genuinely like to hear from some gay people on this thread if they see their cause aligned with the trans community or if, as some has suggested they’re diametrically opposed

So if it's not safe for males to use the male toilets because of the behaviour of other males, then how does it make any sense to inflict males upon female toilets? Do you not want female toilet users to be safe?

Well they are campaigning but you disagree with what they want. So perhaps an idea would be to suggest a compromise or is your idea just that you don’t care about them at all and can’t stretch your mind to think of a feasible solution?