Nordic Model Now article on Grooming Gangs

[IwantToRetire]

Its frightening to think that in 2025 and beyond unaccountable male egotists will be running the world, as so many seem to think what is on social media is reality.

In response to the shit stirring by Musk, Nordic Model Now have written this statement https://nordicmodelnow.org/2025/01/03/on-grooming-gangs/

I agree with those who say that the racial and religious aspects are an important part of why the police ignored the rape gangs. We shouldn't overlook that.

But please, can we also focus on how the police have overlooked child rape for at least decades, probably centuries? The police are not, and AFAIK, have never been there to protect most girls or women. I know quite a few women who were trafficked as children decades ago and the police did not care, even a little, Sometimes they were involved, either in the actual rapes, the trafficking, or covering it up.

I was three when a policeman walked in on my rape by several teens Most of them were white, FWIW. He yelled at all of us. He called me a whore/slut and threatened to lock me up if I didn't stop, as if I had a choice. FFS. He treated me like a piece of garbage who was ruined bc of what the boys did to me. That was where I got the idea that I was a bad person who was forever ruined by my abuse. (My abusers often reminded me and also that the police would throw me in jail if they found out.) Before that, it was just some awful, terrifying experience that kept happening. Others I know had similar experiences with the police either not caring or actually participating in the rapes.

This is the baseline, not some imaginary world where the police actually care and try to prevent child rape as long as the rapists are white. Can we talk about that as well as how the fear of being seen as a racist made it all even worse? I agree that the fear of being seen as racist is important but so is the police not caring about girls being raped or trafficked, esp if they're poor, minority, abused, disabled, or some other "less than".

focus on how the police have overlooked child rape for at least decades, probably centuries?

And the legislature. Somewhere on FWR is a fascinating thread about the age of consent and the parliamentary debates in which MPs (maybe member of HoL?) argued against it being raised because it would prevent them from taking their sons to have their first experience with a (child) prostitute. There are various interesting posts about Booth, possibly Rowntree and others.

PS: after a quick search, I can't find it. This is a basic overview of some of the issues that touches on matters such as the adultification of some girls, typically those of particular social classes etc.

https://www.historyandpolicy.org/policy-papers/papers/the-legacy-of-1885-girls-and-the-age-of-sexual-consent

A thread here from someone who works in data, commenting on the Home Office grooming report. I haven't cross checked all the points she raises, but the comment she makes at the end seems very pertinent:

'Data will tell any story you want.

When I am tasked with analysing data, I often ask “What do you want the data to say?”.

Letting data speak for itself, teasing out its hidden truths, allowing it to reveal its story, hardly ever happens - especially in the public sector. '

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1874758304062492953.html

GenderlessVoid, I'm so very sorry.

This thread, Rethinking?

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4899523-to-think-we-should-up-the-age-of-consent-to-18

(Generally, MN search function is crap, it's far better to use Google and keywords plus 'Mumsnet'.)

This is the baseline, not some imaginary world where the police actually care and try to prevent child rape as long as the rapists are white.

I'm so sorry for what happened to you

I don't think anyone believes that the police care about women and girls, regardless of the victims. I certainly don't.

No, but that is an interesting thread, so thank you.

I had a feeling it was in FWR so I used this search string

site:mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/

(which was why I didn't see your link in AIBU!).

Maybe I'm wrong about which social reformers it was (I can't recall any reason as to why it might have been deleted). It was an eye-opening thread about some of the contemporary debates at the time and how it crossed over into advocating for retaining the abuse of children through rape (aka child prostitution for purposes of the then framing).

Exactly. I dont know why you feel you can scold me for having an opinion you dont agree with.

It's as though you expect everybody to agree with you.

Well I dont.

And it is really boring, and depressing to just get cliched responses to situations.

Particulary when a group of activists contribute to a current issue, based on actually work, as opposed to keyboard commentators.

Which is why letting knobheads like Musk dictate the terms of reference and falling for their gobshite is so depressing.

Is this a feminist board, or just virtual pavlov's dogs.

She didn't scold you, you had a go at her first.

Here's Arabella's post. She was clearly criticising the article, which she has every right to do.

That must surely involve accepting ( and naming) the issues within certain sections of the Pakistani community and addressing those issues at source?

I like the work of Nordic Model Now, and I think they make excellent points in this article about the way prostitution & porn normalisation have played a part. But I agree it's a mistake to ignore or downplay the ethnic/cultural lens here. It's not just about the "political correctness stopped it being seen" angle, although that is relevant: I do believe there are different patterns in the way the Rotherham-style primarily Pakistani gangs operate and find each other and cover for members of their community.

It would be like hearing, "We've found that men who went to private schools are vastly overrepresented as grooming gang perpetrators. It seems they're recruiting each other via their tight alumni networks, and they've got alumni from their schools in positions of trust in the community such as police, councils etc, who are regularly covering for their old school dorm mates when they come under threat of discovery/prosecution. Survivors say that when they tried to go to the press, they were pushed aside as editors feared damaging the reputation of Britain's world-leading private school system. Although they only make up 7% of the population, they were involved in 28% of cases; state school students in 30% of cases; the educational history unknown for the remainder."

And then writing a headline saying "STATE SCHOOL STUDENTS MOST LIKELY TO BE GROOMING GANG RAPISTS".

A better response is "seems there's a pattern here, perhaps we can use our knowledge of this pattern to more quickly identify future cases and to come up with strategies to infiltrate or disrupt these trust networks".

A better response is "seems there's a pattern here, perhaps we can use our knowledge of this pattern to more quickly identify future cases and to come up with strategies to infiltrate or disrupt these trust networks"

This.

And an "amusing" footnote -

Nothing is likely to change for our most marginalised girls and young women while the entire British establishment is condoning, monetising, and facilitating the kind of behaviour for which significant numbers of Pakistani men were eventually convicted. If they had been white-collar white British men, the chances are they would have been welcomed in the House of Lords.

Like Baron Ahmed of Rotherham, perhaps?

What possible circumstances could possible be reviled that make this any better?

Nothing is likely to change for our most marginalised girls and young women

I wish I could locate the other thread that I mentioned earlier. Posters gave quotations/contributions in there from C19 discussions in which men were arguing for the right to initiate their sons to sex by taking them to young prostitutes and that was part of the basis for their objection to raising the age of consent.

This feels like an ongoing history of no change.

.
STARMER TALKING ABOUT GROOMING GANGS .
He describes " Many of them being Asian "
They most certainly are not .

Asia covers a huge number of different Nationalities the majority of them have absolutely no connection with Grooming Gangs .

The truth is -- Many of them are actually of Pakistani Origin . But Starmer won't say this because simply put - he's a fkin coward.

.

Chaotically, the discussion that I recalled was in the Rozzers thread. Be prepared for historical discussion along with thoughts about abandoning Christmas dinner preparation and what books people would read when they were arrested.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4967923-everyone-scarper-the-rozzers-are-coming?page=10&reply=131682737

Wow, well found, Rethinking!

I agree with you but maybe we can hone in on the cultural aspect. There are different ethnic groups in Pakistan. Many Pakistanis in Britain came from a particular area of rural Pakistan.

It looks like you are a Labour candidate for the next local government election, which has been indefinitely postponed by your leader, STUCK FARMER.

Doesn't matter. They are not from Nepal, Bhutan, Sri Lanka, Myanmar, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, China, Japan, Korea or India. They are from either Pakistan or Bangladesh. Let's call the spade a spade and nothing else.

The "White" guilt of brutality from colonial era has gone too far and has clouded the conscious of brits. Labour are using it to enhance their vote banks. That is why they have even postponed the local government elections because they were certain that defect is inevitable as their leader, STUCK FARMER, is incompetent to the core.

It looks like you are a Labour candidate for the next local government election, which has been indefinitely postponed by your leader, STUCK FARMER.

You missed the point I was making. I'm not a Labour supporter, no.

As far as I can tell, they don't come from Bangladesh. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they seem to be of Pakistani origin and moreover from a particular part of Pakistan.

I would like to know everything about these men. What language do they speak amongst themselves? Probably not Urdu. Which mosques do they attend? Are they Deobandis or Barelvis? We already know that they come from poorer backgrounds because they seemed to be cab drivers mostly. These are all factors which might contribute to their attitudes to girls.

They have been called child rapists but in their culture a 15 year old isn't a girl. In rural Pakistan 15 year olds are married with kids.

They have been called child rapists but in their culture a 15 year old isn't a girl. In rural Pakistan 15 year olds are married with kids.

Some of the girls were pre-teens.