Nordic Model Now article on Grooming Gangs

[IwantToRetire]

Its frightening to think that in 2025 and beyond unaccountable male egotists will be running the world, as so many seem to think what is on social media is reality.

In response to the shit stirring by Musk, Nordic Model Now have written this statement https://nordicmodelnow.org/2025/01/03/on-grooming-gangs/

You’re claiming that @ArabellaScott “genuinely believe[s] sexual abuse of women and girls never happens”. And also that she believes it “gets ignored/covered up outside the Muslim communities in Britain”.

Surely these would be mutually contradictory beliefs? And there’s no reason to think she believes either of them.

Stop making baseless claims, Rayon.

As ever, OP, it's a discussion forum and people are going to discuss. Much as you may like to control what is discussed and how, it doesn't work like that.

Quite.

On the latter point I'm sure abuse is covered up in many cases and communities.

(I cant even engage with the first point, it's made purely out of bad faith and is specious.)

I suppose OP was arguing that we can't make comparisons when we are not aware of what's been covered up. That's a fair point, but as discussed in the article, there's enough evidence that has been subsequently revealed to discuss it.

My main point was that the article is written to claim that race has nothing to do with the grooming gangs and cites a half dozen named men as 'evidence' that gangs made of white men are as prevalent as ones made of other races.

The correct way to make that comparison to discuss the point the article is attempting to make would be by using proportionality.

Maybe the issue isn't about some w**ker like Musk, but more that some are just waiting for an opportunity to hijack the horrendous issue of the sexual emploitation of women to score points about how men from some communities are worse that others.

Give over. It's exceedingly clear how little you understand this issue.

My main point was that the article is written to claim that race has nothing to do with the grooming gangs and cites a half dozen named men as 'evidence' that gangs made of white men are as prevalent as ones made of other races.

Exactly. It's a good article in many ways, but like you I think it's pushing the writer's political agenda in others. Obviously the Telegraph isn't exactly agenda free either, but here it provides both key information and balance. I hadn't read it, so thank you for posting it.

'white men are just as happy to rape and torture women and children as men of other ethnicities – possibly more so.

There is zero basis to claim this, I agree. Not to excuse the many terrible things white men have done to women and children, but to call out an obvious bullshit agenda-driven statement.

Of course some will make use of this issue to try to make political capital and some will use it to push racist narratives.

The cover ups and collusion and failures to act properly on the issues over the course of so many decades have left those consequences wide open. Thats unfortunate, but could easily have been foreseen. Pile denial on top of cover up and you push the problem further down the road, making the eventual fallout worse.

Both Labour and Tory governments have failed these girls and women. People have acted out of cowardice and carelessness and political motivations.

What matters to me is that this stops happening and the issues are addressed robustly and without fear or favour. That vulnerable girls are cared for and victims are listened to. People in authority need to deal with it.

Indeed. As with all the gender stuff, we can't afford to be too picky about who is fighting our corner. If we'll only accept help from people who didn't sir around doing nothing for the last ten years, and have never said or done anything hypocritical, nothing will ever get done. That's why Wes Streeting is generally forgiven for his former sins. Because he's doing a good job now. So whoever is calling for a proper inquiry into the grooming gangs today has my support.

I'm baffled by the demands for yet another inquiry. We've had several inquiries and know pretty well what happened and why. What we need is a robust system for ensuring it never happens again, alongside proper monitoring so we can identify and address these crimes as early as possible.

One good point in the article is that the gangs issue is about prostitution of children (and women).

That isn't a point that I've seen made clearly before.

The monetary and exploitative aspects are cogent and need to be acknowledged.

I'm baffled by the demands for yet another inquiry.

The previous inquiries haven't focused on the issue as a whole, they've either been too localised (in what is a phenomenon with common features) or too broad, like the most recent one. You don't have to agree obviously, but on the other thread about this there has been some discussion. It's ok to not feel an inquiry did a particularly good job.

So whoever is calling for a proper inquiry into the grooming gangs today has my support.

Mine too.

And yes. All of this.

The other FWR thread. There are also some fairly unhinged AIBU ones.

Labour rejects calls for Oldham grooming gang inquiry www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/5242968-5242968-labour-rejects-calls-for-oldham-grooming-gang-inquiry

It's interesting that the article cites Weinstein. Saville, Epstein etc as examples of mass-scale sexual abuse by white men to show that it's not just Pakistani Muslim men doing it and having a blind eye turned. Those white men all had a lot of money, power and connections to leverage to make sure blind eyes were turned, whereas the child torturer rapist gangs did not. Yet it still works.

There is no way that if white right-wing nutjobs were operating rape and torture gangs on this scale that anyone in the media would not be digging into it and publicising it so widely.

That said, I actually think it's less about the men's ethnicity and more about how little poor, neglected, vulnerable girls are valued by everyone (including Muslim Pakistani men, police and councillor men, and government ministers).

That said, I actually think it's less about the men's ethnicity and more about how little poor, neglected, vulnerable girls are valued by everyone (including Muslim Pakistani men, police and councillor men, and government ministers).

Yes, I think that's absolutely at the heart of it. But that the cultural elements are relevant in a number of ways and can't be handwaved away as so many people try to do. To tackle this problem properly we absolutely have to focus on it as a specific form of sexual abuse.

That is terrible. Reading it has made me feel sick. The poor children.

Exactly. Same here.

It's an attempt at feminist analysis. But to me there's not enough class AND racism analysis, or understanding of what intersectionality is.

Access matters. Taxi driving becoming effectively a racially closed shop in some areas meant there was a network of men who were connected and had loyalties in multiple ways who had some social permission for girls and women to get into their cars. What other group of strange men do we TELL our daughters to get into the cars of? Naturally there were some people who could see that this wasn't right. But enough of them were deterred from really seeing what they were seeing by other judgements. So they saw girls who seemed to be 'making choices' which third wave 'feminism' promotes. Or they saw possible racism in themselves, so they judged themselves for feeling uncomfortable seeing white girls repeatedly getting into cabs driven by Asian men. Or they judged the girls from a class point of view for looking trashy and not doing homework or clarinet practice, and were very easily deterred if the abused girls fought back their judgment the way that abused children do.

Anything at all not to see the truth, that female children were being groomed and abused by networked, incĺuding racially networked, groups of men who had access.

As for the inquiries - I don't think personally think we should have yet another inquiry into the same thing in the past. I would like to know if it is happening NOW and what, if anything, has changed.

This article raises a little bit about the class aspects.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-rotherham-cover-up/

Julie Bindel has also written on it - is recall an article on Blackpool though i can't remember where I read it.

Nordic model now is doing an amazing job on trying to ensure that prostitution illegal for buyers of sex and not for sellers. This approach enables any woman who sells sex to get help, medical attention and care whereas any sex buyer can be prosecuted and sent to prison (prison sentence if they realise that a woman selling sex is in distress).
i am fully supportive of these efforts.

but as @ArabellaScott and @Ereshkigalangcleg points out, this is a fundamentally different aim compared to trying to ensure that there are no cover ups due to misguided sensitivities. We cannot watch women and girls being abused just because we don’t want to upset ethic minorities or religions (any religions).

Here's an article by Julie for Al Jazeera. She has been writing about it for many years.

www.aljazeera.com/amp/opinions/2024/2/23/the-uks-grooming-gangs-and-the-lessons-never-learned

There were white male social workers running care homes, right up to (at least) the 80s, who were organising the abuse of the vulnerable children in their care. It’s partly why we, on paper at least, have much stronger safeguarding measures now.

That doesn’t mean there isn’t a big problem with gangs of men with other racial profiles abusing girls. Clearly there is.

Strengthening the Police’s resolve and ability to investigate and charge anyone, regardless of their skin colour, position in society or religious background and without fear of having to put down any social unrest that may follow (anyone recall how happy the very same police forces were to provoke and fight the miners, back in the day?) must be a goal that everyone would support.

Nordic model now is doing an amazing job on trying to ensure that prostitution illegal for buyers of sex and not for sellers. This approach enables any woman who sells sex to get help, medical attention and care whereas any sex buyer can be prosecuted and sent to prison (prison sentence if they realise that a woman selling sex is in distress).
i am fully supportive of these efforts.

YY, me too. And as I said elements of the article were good. I used to follow Suzzan Blac on another social media platform, what she documents is horrific.