Three-day ban on Reddit for “hate”

[ConversingWithStrangers]

The only thing I can think of is posting on a UK sub about male violence. A man said that it’s not just men who have a problem with being violent because he’d been assaulted by a trans woman. I replied, “how did you know your assailant was trans?”.

They literally have subs for men to masturbate to videos of women who have a look of being “dead behind the eyes” they’ve been abused so much.

(It’s either that or somebody doesn’t like my crochet advice).

Most lesbian women understand/ define a lesbian as a woman who has romantic/ sexual attraction/ relationships with other women, and they include trans women within that definition of lesbian and of their definition of woman.

A small minority of lesbians have “gender critical” beliefs, which means that they don’t accept that transgender women are women or lesbians.

Can you provide proof that most lesbians include men who identify as women and are also sexually attracted to women in their definition of lesbian?

Most of us here actually

😂.

No. The vast majority of lesbians wholeheartedly reject gender critical beliefs as they are actually supportive of trans people.

I mean you can pretend that’s not true if you want , but it is.

That’s not the same as actual female lesbians wanting to date trans women or welcome them into specifically lesbian only spaces. That doesn’t seem to be the survey question that was asked.
I also don’t see a question about “gender critical” views.

Women are more inclined to “be kind” and supportive of anyone whose life is difficult.

It doesn’t translate into wanting lesbian dating apps to be full of trans women.

And you can pretend and get upset about it as you wish but that doesn’t make it true, either.

Me saying trans women are men doesn’t mean I don’t want them to live safe, fulfilling happy lives. It just means exactly that - they are men and should not be counted or included as women in any place where sex is important. Sexuality is a place where sex is important, no matter how much you try to pretend otherwise.

wholeheartedly

"The vast majority of lesbians wholeheartedly reject gender critical beliefs as they are actually supportive of trans people."

Well, the vast majority of so called "lesbians" are in fact transwomen themselves nowadays, so when you're lurking on Reddit or TikTok or wherever, it will look like that, yes.

I call bullshit on that. It’s about sexual attraction. Sex. Not gender identity.

Where are you getting “most lesbians” from in this context? It’s not from the survey you posted.

Most non-trans , lesbian women are not gender critical.
They are trans inclusive.
They reject gender critical beliefs and consider them transphobic.
Feel free to pretend otherwise if it makes you more comfortable, but you are living in denial 🤷🏼‍♀️

Feel free to feel comfortable with the idea that there's no such thing as same sex attraction, and no such thing as a lesbian meaning same sex attracted woman, if that makes you feel more comfortable, go ahead....

This is the thing I was thinking about. Someone explained it in more detail (in a substack possibly) but I can’t find that. This is the data though.

So can we drop the pretence that lesbians subs aren’t being taken over by trans women.

I would love to see the actual statistical evidence for this claim. And no, a subreddit with 550,000 members don't count for shit unless you can demonstrate that a statistically significant proportion of these members are natal women.

Most non-trans , lesbian women are not gender critical.

They don't actually think these male people are the same as women and they don't include them in their dating pools because they are attracted to women only. So in that sense they are, aren't they?

Lostcat · Today 21:13

lol if that were anything like what is going on I’d agree with you

I'm sorry that years and years of discussion thousands of links to verifiably well qualified researchers' written output seems to have passed you by and that you'd prefer to just believe in Tinkerbell.

Some lesbians are open to dating trans people and some aren’t.

Most aren't, just like most gay men. Well, they might consider a biologically female trans person, just like a gay man might possibly consider a male one.

The same goes for heterosexual men and women.

So can we drop the pretence that lesbians subs aren’t being taken over by trans women

It really is stark when you see that graph.

My data is from this very pro trans research (with my bolding of some salient points):

Virtually all heterosexuals excluded trans folks from their dating pool: only 1.8% of straight women and 3.3% of straight men chose a trans person of either binary gender. But most non-heterosexuals weren’t down for dating a trans person either, with only 11.5% of gay men and 29% of lesbians being trans-inclusive in their dating preferences. Bisexual/queer/nonbinary participants (these were all combined into one group) were most open to having a trans partner, but even among them, almost half (48%) did not select either ‘trans man’ or ‘trans woman.’
*
Surprisingly, among the 127 participants open to dating a trans person, almost half selected a trans person of a gender incongruent with their stated sexual orientation. For example, 50% of the trans-inclusive straight women and 28% of the trans-inclusive gay men were willing to date a trans woman, even though one wouldn’t expect either straight women or gay men to be attracted to women. Similarly, 50% of trans-inclusive straight men and 69% of trans-inclusive lesbians said they’d date a trans man, even though both groups are presumably only attracted to women. And 33% of the trans-inclusive bisexual/queer participants said they would only date a trans person of one gender but not the other, even though one may expect this group to be attracted to multiple genders.
Digging even deeper into the choices of cis folks willing to date trans people, an interesting pattern of discrimination against trans women in particular emerged among those who would be expected to be attracted to women: 28% of trans-inclusive bisexual/queer/nonbinary folks and 38% of trans-inclusive lesbians said they wouldn’t date a trans woman — only a trans man.

https://www.them.us/story/cis-trans-dating

Then why aren't men welcome in the lesbian community?

This is all entirely logical.

If you're attracted to women, you generally want them to both be and present as a woman. Because if they look like a man at a superficial level, you probably won't be attracted enough to them to get to the point of taking your clothes off. And if they look like a woman at a superficial level but then they take their clothes off and they don't have female sexual anatomy (which even post op TW don't), you're probably not going to want to have sex with them.

Same principle applies if you're attracted to men. If you're attracted to men you probably don't want someone who wears women's clothes, or someone who presents in a masculine way but doesn't have a penis.

If you're attracted to both sexes then you're probably more open to the idea of mixing and matching, because if you're attracted to both masculine and feminine and male and female then a male presenting woman or female presenting man might not be a turn off for you, but on the other hand you may well still be looking for someone who is unambiguously male or unambiguously female, rather than having traits of both. And regardless, if you want children you probably want someone with a working reproductive system.

IMO This is why LGBT communities online and offline generally do not entertain people with gender critical views coming along. If you want to mis-gender trans people that's one thing (and shouldn't be a bannable offence unless it's done intentionally and repeatedly to cause trouble/provoke/annoy), but when you start the "AGP" nonsense like this here making implications trans people are only trans for sexual/perverse reasons, or suggesting that because an LGBT community is trans friendly the lesbians there "must all be AGP male", that comes across as very hateful and transphobic. People go to LGBT communities to chat about LGBT topics and talk to others who are LGBT in a safe space, they don't need or want to read hateful homophobic or transphobic diatribes.

That’s really shocking, Cat. What did the naughty sister do to upset your little friend? Did she read on Mumsnet that there are dreadful women who say ‘ hang on, women don’t have a penis, they have a clitoris and a vagina, I’ve checked on myself’? Was the sister beguiled by those wicked hags into getting a mirror and a copy of the Encyclopaedia and checking and thinking ‘oh wow, I seem to have a vagina , so maybe I am a woman and the people with the sticking out bit are men’ ?

Did she ( gulp) share this information with her sister?

Whatever next…..just as well she had your calm and realistic shoulder to cry on.

It's perfectly clear and your message is rude.

Wasn't r/detrans temporarily banned? Probably by Mr Challenor during his tenure.

Ah, TRAs in the streets, TERFs in the sheets you mean? You are saying most lesbian women (in the original sex based meaning of woman) are happy to be inclusive and welcome men (in the original sex based meaning) as lesbians knowing they personally have no sexual or romantic interest in trans women on the assumption other women are happy to sleep with them?

And you actually think this is laudable? Wow.

I almost feel sorry for the trans women. Imagine being told how stunning and brave you are, welcomed with open arms and huge performative smiles but somehow when it comes to dating everyone is washing their hair.