Is it too early for a post mortem?

[Appalonia]

So, now that America has categorically rejected transgender ideology, which I do think will affect the rest of the world, is now the time to ascertain HOW did so many institutions, including the Democratic and Labour Parties get so completely bamboozled by this ideology? Which is crazy, not based in material reality, disadvantages half of the population, has physically damaged thousands of young people, and that they didn't think that people would see through it?

I know a lot of people dislike Matt Walsh, but his documentary, What is a Woman, was jaw dropping! We must NEVER let this dangerous idiocy happen again ( and yes I know it's not over...)

A woman is one of the nuanced modes of existence of adult humanity which are vulnerable to reductionist sloganising within the context of an ongoing culture war.

Not only is that risible nonsense it is offensive risible nonsense. You really think educated, intelligent women on here and elsewhere are going to take that seriously?

Nice to know though that the women in Afghanistan are being appallingly oppressed not because they are women by dint of their biological, unchanging sex as females but because they have been trained in womanhood, damn that training, eh. Perhaps Butters could pop over there and provide some reverse training and then all will be well.

I thought I'd heard it all with the reductionist, insulting, misogynistic rubbish put forward by those who are up to their necks in GI and waging a campaign for the destruction of women as a distinct and separate sex class who require rights but these posts from Butters really take the biscuit.

Oh bless. Never in the world of human discourse has a series of words meant so little.

“it's clear that there is no hope of advancing trans rights for another generation”

I see. So, there is going to be a need to keep reminding society of the needs of female people for single sex provisions for generations to come. Because the long term strategy is clear. That eventually male people will be fully affirmed and accepted in their philosophical belief that they are female in some way and claim the description of girl / woman?

It is a good thing then that we are seeking to have laws clarified now for the future generations benefit. All the speeches in Hansard and the court cases will be there to support the future generations of female people to ensure their needs are considered and not simply dismissed as they have been.

Means exactly as much as 'A Woman is an Adult Human Female' means when discussing what is an extremely complex issue that becomes completely intractable when reduced to shouting pithy soundbites at one another with no hope of nuance or reason.

I'll admit it doesn't have quite the same bite to it though; as weaponisable pedantry you can scream at marginalised people goes, AHF is an absolute banger.

A woman is an adult human female. There is nothing complex about it, it is as simple as that.
Adult human female, excluding all males, whatever they reckon their inner essence is.

And yet, categorising sex in humans isn’t complex. And it isn’t complex at all to understand that all someone needs to be a girl or a woman is to have a body formed around the production of large gametes.

The only people who think it is complex are those who wish to include male people in the unique language needed to describe female people as women and girls.

The hyperbole and emotional manipulation continues though. I’m fine form.

DARVO in action
I know women are used to dealing with toddler tantrums, teenage angst, complex family relationships and the rest but you'd hope that on a feminist board women might get some respite from the relentless misogyny.

Anyway - too much time spent on one individual's endless demands for attention.

If I was to no longer refer to myself as a woman, would it actually make an iota of difference? All this culture war posturing nonsense would just go away? We'd just be able to get on with our lives in peace? Seriously?

That may be your stance - and honestly, if so, I'm quite sympathetic to your desire to hold onto something you feel is yours and don't want to risk diluting by expanding - but I don't think your fellow posters agree with you, and I don't think many of those in positions of power do either.

Quite a few prominent trans women have tried the whole 'if I just don't refer to myself as a woman, they'll leave me alone' strategy over the years and...well...just look at the abuse they continue to get from many of the people who are ostensibly on their 'side' and who they agree with and actively aid in campaigning. It's all just rather wretched and horrifying, to be honest.

I do not see the Caitlyn Jenners and Blair Whites of America being spared by what's coming if Project 2025 proceeds to completion and beyond.

If all this means to you is enforcing the demarcation lines of ideological, definitional purity in the name of whatever label you define yourself as then by all means don't let me stop you. You can have your badge all to yourself. It will not make any difference.

I'm a lot more interested in the practical ways we can stop the Trumpist-Evangelist anti-woke crusade from metastasizing into a wholesale global catastrophe for women and minorities - because that future is going to be shit for all of us no matter how neatly we fit into metaphysical categories.

It is rather disingenuous to make a statement that if you stopped calling yourself a woman that the issues would continue. Of course, they will continue if male people stopped demanding use of language such as woman, but insisted on using female single sex spaces, sport and other provisions and opportunities.

Do tell us which male people stopped using female single sex spaces (ie never used them again), stopped taking advantage of any female sex based provision AND stopped using the words women use to describe ourselves?

A few might have said ‘ok, we agree we are male and you can call us men still if you feel you have to’ but still use female single sex spaces and still do want some people to refer to them as ‘women’. But I will be very happy to know which male people are being referred to.

Is AI hallucinating again?

Gees you're a real gaslighter and exaggerator and manipulator. Staying out of female-only spaces does NOT mean you are 'exiled from public life'. If that were so, half the entire population would be exiled from public life.

And yes, it is ENTIRELY about staying out of female-only spaces, and nothing else. It suits you though to pretend it isn't, so you can continuing violating women. Do you not note that no one had a problem with transsexuals decades ago because they didn't enter female only spaces? The fact that you don't understand how SERIOUS this issue is, for many of us rape survivors as well, shows you think with 100% Male Entitlement and male mindset. A woman would 'get it'.

Why is it that every post you make sounds like its been through ChatBot or some other AI programme? Are you unable to talk like a normal human being?

Mate, you can "refer" to yourself as a woman as much as you want.

The line is drawn when you try to leverage that self-applied label to access the resources reserved for female people or to portray your assessment or experiences as that of a "woman". Because that is when this individual conception you have of womanhood butts up against other people's needs and starts to cause harm

You assume the pushback on you calling yourself a "woman" is a "culture war" between a repressive idea of traditional womanhood and your more expanisive conception of "woman" as some sort of indefinable shifting possibility of human experience.

That's not the case.

The pushback you get from female people is simply because you are appropriating our name, rights and language.

We exist. Whatever you are and whatever you experience, it is not the same thing as we are and what we expereince. So whatever you want to label it as in your own head, out here in the world where you need to interact with other people, it can't have the same name as womanhood and it certainly does not justify access to women's rights, spaces and language.

As I've said before, take the disputed language away and I'd most likely be on your side in the culture war you fear. But I cannot be your ally when you are my oppressor.

Transwomen and other gender colonisng males like yourself need to roll back your appropriation of womanood and find your own identity and your own language to decribe your own needs and experiences instead of squatting on ours.

You feel the victim of a cultire war yet you enact your own on us. We would like to support you but we cannot do that when your narrative of yourself does not allow us the cultural space to exist in.

So the only thing that matters is you. YOUR discomfort. YOUR dignity. We actual females don't matter a fuck, do we? Interesting that you mention the discomfort of men. Yet you don't acknowledge the discomfort of women in the womens who clock you.

Why is that? Why is it you always prioritise how men feel, and not how women feel? Why is the discomfort of the men in the mens noteworthy, but the discomfort of women in the womens not even register with you let alone noteworthy? Your misogyny and hatred of women and dismissal of our comfort is so palpable.

And sorry, but as we women are going to continue to push to get out rights re-instated to have you ousted from the females, you WILL have to 'go back' eventually. And you will comply. So best prepare yourself. Because OUR 'comfort' and 'dignity' is all that matters.

I transitioned decades ago in school and have exclusively used female facilities and spaces where present my entire adult life. Most of the time it's the most mundane, banal, ordinary thing in the world and nobody who knows me in person would find it anything other than ridiculous to do otherwise.

The exception is in the event that there is someone present who I know to harbour negative attitudes, feelings, or actions towards transgender people or transness in general because, much like sharing a space with anyone who holds negative views about any other aspect of my personhood, it turns what should be a safe refuge into something deeply unpleasant and frightening.

This whole 'transsexuals didn't enter female only spaces' thing - I don't even know where this lie came from because it has been demonstrably untrue for at least three decades and was well enough established - though the numbers were considerably smaller - for some time prior to that. Some people may have chosen not to, and that's a choice they made.

I'm a lot more interested in the practical ways we can stop the Trumpist-Evangelist anti-woke crusade from metastasizing into a wholesale global catastrophe for women and minorities

Massive practical thing that will make a huge difference - stop calling yourself a woman and demanding access to female provisions.

Seriously. You'll defang one of the most potent lines of attack for the "Trumpist-Evangelist anti-woke crusade", you'll solve what is manifestly a huge incongruity in supposedly progressive politics, and you'll completely heal the splt between femisnists and genderists.

And once you drop putting all your emotional needs into this colonialist demand to remake "womahood" into a shape that can accomodate you, destroying the rights, needs and lamguage of female people in the process, and focud on building something entirely new that fits you from the start, you'll be putting your energy into a positive future instead of fighting a zero sum game. Win-win!

I absolutely despise the writing style of generative AI so that is distinctly unlikely!

That's some weird tone moderation you have going on here - have you run out of other things to criticise, perchance?

Firstly, "She didn't know so it didn't harm her" is not an argument many women (original female meaning) are ok with.

Secondly, you have gone beyond simply entering female spaces by deception and taken it upon yourself to redefine the basis on which women exist as a coherent and meaningful social group, asserting that your history of appropriating and preferring female-only spaces is somehow proof that such spaces are not required, and that womanhood is something other than female, something defined by what you experience, which has more weight apparently than the what the billions of female people who are not you experience.

I'm sorry that women's legitimate rejection of your colonisation project upsets you, but being upset when someone tells you no is not a moral argument to get your own way.

Again, that sounds like robotic computer programmed AI stream of words. Please talk like a normal human being, not an AI programme. The only part I could male out was you still think males like you are 'marginalised', when you are the oppressors and predators and ruling sex.

Means exactly as much as 'A Woman is an Adult Human Female' means when discussing what is an extremely complex issue that becomes completely intractable when reduced to shouting pithy soundbites at one another with no hope of nuance or reason.

Are you suggesting that adult human females don't exist?

It reminds me of arguing with a teenager (I want what I want because it upsets me when you don’t give me what I want. And I don’t care what facts you tell me, I know better than you and I still want what I want).

Scarily, AI can often be more logical than teenagers these days.

have exclusively used female facilities and spaces where present my entire adult life. Most of the time it's the most mundane, banal, ordinary thing in the world and nobody who knows me in person would find it anything other than ridiculous to do otherwise.

Its all about you, isn't it? Your selfishness is off the charts. I and others on here don't give a stuff when you started using female spaces, or why, or that people who know you would find it normal. ITS NOT ABOUT YOU! What you are doing is abusive and wrong, and I don't give a stuff about your backstory or people who know you. It doesn't matter to us. Nothing justifies what you are doing. Nothing. Absolutely nothing you say can ever justify it.

And the 'trans were using our spaces for decades' is the oldest lie in the book, and demonstrably untrue. If they were, the police were called and they'd be evicted and charged. That is what has changed today.

US journalist Benjamin Ryan has posted an article discussing amicus briefs submitted by various US medical societies to the Supreme Court regarding the ongoing case re the State of Tennessee. This is going to be a case to follow in months to come.

Here’s a thread with an outline of the issues:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1863236695325311357.html

Here’s a link to the article:
https://t.co/gxvpJZBj0C

Damn, male entitlement really stinks, doesn't it?