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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

This is why so many women voted Trump

1000 replies

BabyLlamaZen · 07/11/2024 22:13

I’m not saying it’s right, I’m not saying it’s worth the horrors of the Trump administration (and what other women’s rights will be abolished). However, I can also empathise. Books like this are everywhere in baby sections of bookshops in USA. My american friend is naturally more conservative than myself although hated Trump and didn’t vote for him previously (she abstained and then she went Biden although she says she seriously regrets) and this time she voted Trump. She said this stuff is now everywhere and it’s constant. She also showed me a baby’s ABC book which included B for bisexual (and literally then described it as people who are sexually attracted to either gender). For babies.

This is why so many women voted Trump
This is why so many women voted Trump
This is why so many women voted Trump
This is why so many women voted Trump
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36
Dumbledoreslemonsherbets · 10/11/2024 11:29

Katie Dolatowski is a 6ft 5 male paedophile. He started with voyeurism in the women's toilets he accesses without the consent of the women and children in there but with the approval and applause of people like Harris. Then he escalated, as these men do, and attacked a girl child alone in the mislabelled 'women's'.

At the time of his conviction for this crime the court and media colluded in his narcissistic, deluded and coercive demand he be referred to with wrong sex pronouns. Confusing and misleading the public and making a very clear statement that this predatory paedophile's feelings were more important than his victim. Who notably seemed never to be asked about her perception of Dolatowski's sex (or indeed what pronouns she wanted used for her in their abusive articles which simply assigned female sex pronouns to her - making it clear the misogyny at the root if this belief system ). I hope she wasn't told to lie in court for him.

Of course these lies helped Dolatowski to have access to more potential victims. He was at one time in a women's prison and placed in a women's hostel on release.

I am fucking fuming about the abuse of this girl (and many like her - all the girls being forced unconsenting into changing rooms with men for a start) by the media and the courts.

It's been imposed top down and normal people are rising up and saying 'not in my name'. And whatever Trump might be like as a person, politically he's making it easier for people to speak up.

Datun · 10/11/2024 11:33

nolongersurprised · 10/11/2024 11:22

By that reasoning, the entirety of Reddit is Russian propaganda

Thing is There are loads of people who are interested in pushing trans ideology. I don't think it's confined to any one source.

RedToothBrush · 10/11/2024 11:33

nolongersurprised · 10/11/2024 11:22

By that reasoning, the entirety of Reddit is Russian propaganda

All those employed by Facebook to moderate and delete anything remotely gender critical are russian bots on the payroll.

I think that censorship of perfectly normal and rational observations of sex, probably have a greater impact than amplification on social media because they make people feel silenced and disempowered in a way that has much more of a direct effect than actually perhaps the real life practical fall out does.

Notably, one of the bigger swings is in older groups who have lower social media usage. Why?

Is it because they are coming across something that's been propagated via social media by younger family members and they can see it's bollocks and then are meeting incredibly hostile militant level responses about how bigoted they are and how they want to transgenocide etc etc which are simply nonsense?

It's the normal person coming across people like Tandora without so much as logging on to twitter. Why isn't this talked about? Why is the narrative about the Russian bots amplifying things?! And then you find out it's schools and healthcare that are fully onboard and pushing this.

Someone jumped the shark with the Russianbot accusation. We are long past that being relevant with some of this.

Tandora · 10/11/2024 11:34

MrsOvertonsWindow · 10/11/2024 11:00

I was responding to the rest of your response to Bonfire Lady ( the bit you missed out above) 😂 where you stated:
"I understand you want to discredit and belittle me, but probably better to focus on the arguments rather than the person".

Edited

Yes because as soon as I mention anything about my personal background, people start putting it down and picking it apart. E.g. - that doesn't make you a medical doctor, if you are a specialist in this area that makes you an ideologue etc. There is no way to win as people's ultimate aim is to discredit my person so they can dismiss what I have to say.

Tandora · 10/11/2024 11:38

Shortshriftandlethal · 10/11/2024 11:25

Once again...the 'trans child' is a construct used to describe children who struggle with their developing self or who are naturally non conforming with societal stereotypes. Usually they are gay or on the autistic spectrum. Some have suffered childhood sexual or other abuse. and wish to escape the reality of their sexed body.

Calling the surgical removal of healthy body parts, or the prescription of drugs which block natural processes health care, is actually the complete opposite to what it is.

Edited

Some people are trans,
Some children are trans.
Being trans is a part of human diversity. It always has been and as far as we can tell it always will be.
This is ok as there is nothing inherently wrong with being trans.

Datun · 10/11/2024 11:38

Tandora · 10/11/2024 11:34

Yes because as soon as I mention anything about my personal background, people start putting it down and picking it apart. E.g. - that doesn't make you a medical doctor, if you are a specialist in this area that makes you an ideologue etc. There is no way to win as people's ultimate aim is to discredit my person so they can dismiss what I have to say.

You said some children don't have a sex. You dismissed yourself!

Lovelyview · 10/11/2024 11:39

Tandora · 10/11/2024 11:38

Some people are trans,
Some children are trans.
Being trans is a part of human diversity. It always has been and as far as we can tell it always will be.
This is ok as there is nothing inherently wrong with being trans.

That's your belief. It is not everyone's belief. If you want to medically treat children based on your (and their) beliefs you need to have very good evidence that the treatment you are giving is necessary.

Tandora · 10/11/2024 11:42

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 10/11/2024 11:27

I would be happy for someone to suggest an alternative to "designed", but it does not necessarily imply an intelligent designer. Biologists have often used the word "strategy" in the context of an evolutionary advantage; that is not meant to imply that chameleons have chosen to camouflage themselves.

Shorthand does not mean oversimplification. Edge cases do not mean that our understanding is fundamentally wrong. Quantum mechanics, for example, does not invalidate Newtonian mechanics when playing pool or snooker.

Yes "strategy" is also unhelpful and misleading terminology. Although it is tempting to see things in this way.

Tandora · 10/11/2024 11:43

Lovelyview · 10/11/2024 11:39

That's your belief. It is not everyone's belief. If you want to medically treat children based on your (and their) beliefs you need to have very good evidence that the treatment you are giving is necessary.

Its not a "belief" its an empirical truth about the world.

I don't claim to fully understand it, but it is what it is.

Tandora · 10/11/2024 11:44

Datun · 10/11/2024 11:38

You said some children don't have a sex. You dismissed yourself!

Will you stop with this one? Or alternatively share the post where I said the words "some children don't have a sex".

Dumbledoreslemonsherbets · 10/11/2024 11:47

The court that used wrong sex pronouns in the Dolatiwski case weren't Russian bots. The bbc journalists reporting on it weren't Russian bots. Evan Davis who's a misogynist on this issue with a massive platform, Owen jones are not Russian bots.

The teachers transing kids in schools in secret aren't Russian bots. The teacher using a us video in Phse that told my 12 year old daughter she was a bigot if she said that Glen with his penis who overnight decided he was Glinda shouldn't share a bathroom with her, with the 'kindness' and 'consideration' only going one way? Not a Russian bot.

It's conceivable that that coercively abusive video used in phse in year 7 (shown to all 200 in her year) in my daughter's school was created by Russians I suppose, though claiming to be from a US charity, but the teachers in the school didn't have to override all they knew about safeguarding, the law and child emotional abuse and go along with it. For fucks sake. Adults should really lose their jobs.

I did complain, remind the school of the law and the definition of emotional abuse in KCSIE and thankfully now they're back to reality and not lying to and bullying kids. The worst offender teacher has left. But it's hard. Because of the culture of witch hunts. With Trump's stance and Kemi being elected it gets easier. Thank goodness.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 10/11/2024 11:48

Tandora · 10/11/2024 11:34

Yes because as soon as I mention anything about my personal background, people start putting it down and picking it apart. E.g. - that doesn't make you a medical doctor, if you are a specialist in this area that makes you an ideologue etc. There is no way to win as people's ultimate aim is to discredit my person so they can dismiss what I have to say.

I think you'll find it's the evident inaccuracies of some of your posts that people are responding to - especially in relation to the impact on children's bodies of puberty blockers and your lack of insight into child psychology and development / need to safeguard children from believing that their bodies are wrong but can be cured with a sex change.

MNHQ regularly warn that none of us can know that people on here are really who they say they are. You'd be surprised at how many posters rock up on here claiming to be women and mothers, while their posts so drip in dislike of women and lack of care for children that they're evidently not who they say they are.

borntobequiet · 10/11/2024 11:53

Tandora · 10/11/2024 11:34

Yes because as soon as I mention anything about my personal background, people start putting it down and picking it apart. E.g. - that doesn't make you a medical doctor, if you are a specialist in this area that makes you an ideologue etc. There is no way to win as people's ultimate aim is to discredit my person so they can dismiss what I have to say.

I dismiss what you say precisely because of what you say, which is mostly nonsense. This also makes me sceptical of your claimed academic qualifications, or to infer that they are not in any science or indeed reality based discipline.

Tandora · 10/11/2024 11:55

borntobequiet · 10/11/2024 11:53

I dismiss what you say precisely because of what you say, which is mostly nonsense. This also makes me sceptical of your claimed academic qualifications, or to infer that they are not in any science or indeed reality based discipline.

This also makes me sceptical of your claimed academic qualifications, or to infer that they are not in any science or indeed reality based discipline

right. Exactly.

Tandora · 10/11/2024 11:56

MrsOvertonsWindow · 10/11/2024 11:48

I think you'll find it's the evident inaccuracies of some of your posts that people are responding to - especially in relation to the impact on children's bodies of puberty blockers and your lack of insight into child psychology and development / need to safeguard children from believing that their bodies are wrong but can be cured with a sex change.

MNHQ regularly warn that none of us can know that people on here are really who they say they are. You'd be surprised at how many posters rock up on here claiming to be women and mothers, while their posts so drip in dislike of women and lack of care for children that they're evidently not who they say they are.

MNHQ regularly warn that none of us can know that people on here are really who they say they are. You'd be surprised at how many posters rock up on here claiming to be women and mothers, while their posts so drip in dislike of women and lack of care for children that they're evidently not who they say they are.

What are you implying here?

ItsFunToBeAVampire · 10/11/2024 11:58

Anyone that says men can be women is automatically a liar and everything else they say is in doubt, that's not surprising is it?

Tandora · 10/11/2024 12:00

ItsFunToBeAVampire · 10/11/2024 11:58

Anyone that says men can be women is automatically a liar and everything else they say is in doubt, that's not surprising is it?

"Anyone that says men can be women is automatically a liar"

What do you mean by this?

Circumferences · 10/11/2024 12:03

Tandora · 10/11/2024 12:00

"Anyone that says men can be women is automatically a liar"

What do you mean by this?

TWAW

lifeturnsonadime · 10/11/2024 12:06

Datun · 10/11/2024 11:38

You said some children don't have a sex. You dismissed yourself!

I mean this is so batshit I just can't take anything that Tandora says seriously.

I don't care what qualifications they have. If they claim that I don't believe a single other word they say on the issue.

Tandora · 10/11/2024 12:06

Circumferences · 10/11/2024 12:03

TWAW

Well it's semantics isn't it.

RedToothBrush · 10/11/2024 12:06

It's been imposed top down and normal people are rising up and saying 'not in my name'. And whatever Trump might be like as a person, politically he's making it easier for people to speak up.

The observation for Brexit and Trump#1 was that there was a clash between the working employed class (not those at the very bottom) and the middle class beaucratic class and the celebrity class. The celebrity class pushed ideas and the management level class imposed it on those below them.

Trump didn't fit into the celebrity class neatly because he rubbed them up the wrong way and said things against the grain. He wasn't the middle management class.

So the working class were happier to vote for him because he was outside the clash with middle management.

We talked about this a lot in 2016/17.

What's truly frightening is that the Democrats didn't learn from this. And once again there's been a shed load of celebrity endorsements. No consideration as to how and why Trump's speeches which have a lower vocabulary level, resonant better in certain groups. Instead we just got more word salad. Harris definitely has been criticised about this.

It's about this concept of 'people like me'. Donald Trump doing a shit Dad dance or rambling like your dickhead of an uncle who you know is a twat - but he's YOUR twat rather than some distant Professor Yaffle. It's why you get the obligatory photos of politician with a pint in hand or eating fish and chips. They are trying to do that 'people like me' thing.

Politics across the western world has got hooked on chasing certain voters and taking other groups for granted. There's no effort to even try and engage with certain parts of the electorate because, well they aren't ever going to vote for your party. Why try tackling the issues in these communities? They aren't a vote winner. The 'people like me' thing really matters.

This whole establishment being closed to 'people like me' thing matters. When establishments start to remove the word woman or Christmas it matters. Not because it's about those words or subjects, but because it's about the closed decision making by do gooders being out of touch with 'people like me'.

Trump is the equivalent of the bloke you can imagine yourself talking to in the pub (or indeed church). But you can't imagine yourself in any situation or having a conversation with Harris. Maybe because she is a black woman, but more because of how she speaks and what she speaks about than anything else.

He's not polished and doesn't appear coached. That gives off this air of authentic to many that Harris can't replicate and compete with.

It makes no sense to anyone who values education or what Harris says. They are missing the point because they can't see the point. They are looking from the wrong angle.

If you don't value education and you don't care about a polished performance because that's not what people like you do, then you don't look at Harris as a candidate who you think can perhaps represent you best.

This is all about shifting where you are sitting and listening. Not just listening to the stuff you want to hear and understand.

It's about hearing the things you don't understand and going 'These aren't bad people. So why are they saying this?'. It's too easy to dismiss them as stupid. Stupid doesn't cut it. Even stupid people say things for valid reasons. They may draw incorrect conclusions, or phrase it badly but this doesn't mean they don't have a valid point and a valid argument.

Communication is about understanding that this happens at all levels of ability and education. Just because you don't know how to articulate something in the accepted polished fashion doesn't mean your argument itself is weak. It just means your ability to argue the case might be weaker.

It's like the innocent man who gets screwed over because he can't afford the expensive slippery lawyer to defend himself adequately against an unlawful arrest. The assumption without trial that all the police abide by the law, the lawyer upholds the law and the poor uneducated man must be guilty and this is reinforced in real life situations by economic inequality. Because social status. If you start to look at the world from the lens of the poor man the world looks different from the lens of someone training to be a lawyer and believing in the fairness of the law.

I don't think the Dems ever did that self reflection that was needed over this. And it makes me really angry. Likewise I do see Labour's risk of doing similar as very high because of the levels of arrogance and lack of self awareness involved.

If this was the first time round, I'd be less critical of the Dems. But it's not. There was 2016. And then the same messages were reflected in 2020 but they won.

This is actually the third time. And STILL I'm seeing a reluctance to see it.

Tandora · 10/11/2024 12:07

lifeturnsonadime · 10/11/2024 12:06

I mean this is so batshit I just can't take anything that Tandora says seriously.

I don't care what qualifications they have. If they claim that I don't believe a single other word they say on the issue.

Well it's ok because I never said "some children don't have a sex".

RedToothBrush · 10/11/2024 12:07

lifeturnsonadime · 10/11/2024 12:06

I mean this is so batshit I just can't take anything that Tandora says seriously.

I don't care what qualifications they have. If they claim that I don't believe a single other word they say on the issue.

Absolutely. It's a trust thing.

Being a professional means shit all if no one believes or trusts a word you say.

Circumferences · 10/11/2024 12:08

Tandora · 10/11/2024 12:06

Well it's semantics isn't it.

"semantics" 🙄

The TWAW and TMAM mantra is one of the core, fundamental beliefs of extreme gender ideology.

It's a lie. A harmful damaging lie. People aren't accepting it anymore. It's the number 1 myth of this ideology.

Anything else that is said by someone who believes this is going to inevitably raise suspicion.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 10/11/2024 12:09

Tandora · 10/11/2024 11:56

MNHQ regularly warn that none of us can know that people on here are really who they say they are. You'd be surprised at how many posters rock up on here claiming to be women and mothers, while their posts so drip in dislike of women and lack of care for children that they're evidently not who they say they are.

What are you implying here?

I'm pointing out that we all make claims about who we are / our expertise at times. I make claims about my knowledge about education and safeguarding. Nobody knows whether this is true - I can only be judged on the basis of my posts. Eg, if I post inaccuracies about safeguarding legislation / policy then others will judge that my claimed expertise is lacking.

MNHQ quite rightly remind us about this. Retaining a scepticism about who may be behind what we're reading is a good thing.

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