This is why so many women voted Trump

[BabyLlamaZen]

I’m not saying it’s right, I’m not saying it’s worth the horrors of the Trump administration (and what other women’s rights will be abolished). However, I can also empathise. Books like this are everywhere in baby sections of bookshops in USA. My american friend is naturally more conservative than myself although hated Trump and didn’t vote for him previously (she abstained and then she went Biden although she says she seriously regrets) and this time she voted Trump. She said this stuff is now everywhere and it’s constant. She also showed me a baby’s ABC book which included B for bisexual (and literally then described it as people who are sexually attracted to either gender). For babies.

In which case, as squirrel says

And by the same logic if you're not trans what gives you any more authority to discuss this than anyone else? Some of us have a lot of knowledge of this field

Kids don’t stand a chance with this stuff, how could they?

To be clear these comments were in the context of a discussion about medical treatment for girls registered female at birth with variations of sex development (including XY chromosomes).

And yes, if you want to go ahead and call these children 'male' - go for it - as cruel and erroneous as it is it has no material relevance.

Now that’s an example of the logical fallacy known as Argument from Consequences. (Roughly, I approve of the ends, therefore the means were correct.) I think we’ve seen most common fallacies similarly deployed on here.

So if you aren't trans then by your own logic you have no more authority to speak than anyone else with knowledge of this field. And anyone in the field has sadly seen the havoc caused by prioritising ideology over evidence.

This is a such great video and should always be widely shared whenever it pops up. For some reason I hadn't added it to my library of useful stuff when I first saw it, so thank you for reminding me of it. I have saved the link for future use. There are so many important things to consider regarding the impact of gender identity belief that it's often overwhelming trying to pick a way through it. If I saved everything that was useful I'd end up needing my own search engine to navigate all the links 😁

This thread has provided a focus on the medical scandal in an amplified way that perhaps we haven't seen before: we've got a divisive world leader who many people (me included) find abhorrent who has cut through to something most people can agree with: children (and adults TBF, even consenting ones) should not be subject to medical experimentation. No matter what your opinion of Trump, it takes a certain kind of activism/ignorance/personal motivation to argue against this.... yet people do. Including on this thread.

@Tandora Transgender Trend has also shared work by Sallie Baxendale about brain development e.g. https://www.transgendertrend.com/teenage-brain/

Is the information in this article inaccurate, subjective and/or unscientific in your opinion?

My objection was to you claiming you had personal experience of gender dysphoria, and therefore because you felt the way you did, this demonstrates that most trans people get over it.

I have never made a claim of having direct experience of being trans, and assuming my personal experience extends to other.

However, I do have significant expertise on the subject of gender related healthcare.

So bot propaganda is both responsible for children thinking they’re trans in record numbers and the right wing media reporting concern about children thinking they’re trans in record numbers? Bot propaganda has made a problem so they could give them something to stir up right wing media?

Like I said, what?

Indeed. And makes you wonder why on earth they shut down the gender clinic at the Tavistock.

I’d like to see an example of a fake video that successfully engaged people as well.

Guess what? You're not the only one. And happily people are turning towards the evidence and away from the ideology. Too late for some sadly.

However, I do have significant expertise on the subject of gender related healthcare.

Obviously not asking you to out yourself @Tandora but that's quite the bold claim.

How significant? What expertise?

Squirrel has lived experience. Pretty sure that trumps the lot.

The only way the likes of Trump and Farage and all the other far right politicians across Europe can have traction with the public is because there is widespread public unhappiness and dissatisfaction. It's largely economically driven. There is a decline in western living standards for a majority - few young people will enjoy the same as their parents. The process of deindustrialization isn't being talked about. What's fascinating is the places with the largest declines and the most likely to vote for UKIP/Reform are ex-mining or fishing communities. By quite some distance.

The lack of acknowledgement and addressing of this by successive 'mainstream' politicians has allowed a void to be created.

A vacuum in which no one is speaking to the public about the issues they face on a day to day basis allows nefarious explanation to creep in to fill that space.

This is about a dereliction of duty and due diligence which the likes of the Democrats do not want to face up to. Many of them are simply completely unaware of it being they can hide away in their social media bubble and don't mix with people in different circumstances.

So yes I do think that social media and technology change has played a role, but no necessarily in the way people think. I think it's structural and about how democracy functions at its core.

"And happily people are turning towards the evidence and away from the ideology"

If only this were true. Unfortunately, it is going quite the other way. Hence the complete disconnect between the fast majority of academic and scientific research on the subject, and public discourse and policy and the election of people as awful and antiscientific as Trump.

I'm not a US voter, so not a dilemma I was faced with, but I could no more vote for the individual who repealed Roe v Wade and is a know abuser of women and convicted felon, than I could the alternate who has served up the safety of women and girls, turned women's sports into a category for sub par male athletes and labels any dissent as hate speech. I have been effectively disenfranchised in the U.K. and it would seem the same if I lived in the US.

Well according to the 'lived experience' school of thought anyway 😂 Happily I also have professional experience so yaknow boom mic drop etc 😂

I have a doctorate and about 15 years of professional research experience.

There are too many to link - on various topics - various elections, war zones, pop culture, celebrities, AI, Brexit, etc.

This is an interesting article: https://www.npr.org/2024/09/04/nx-s1-5100329/us-russia-election-interference-bots-2024

Ah yes so now that your own arguments have you cornered you're turning back to the purpose of the thread. Terribly gracious of you.

So can you explain to me how a baby can have no sex? Which you said was a factual part of that book.

You don’t have to link them all, maybe just one about trans ideology, an amplifying one, if you will.

There's a boy in my school who identifies as a girl. Everyone has propped it up to be kind.

He's still ten.

What happens when the hormones kick in?

Everyone 'being kind' has set him up for an inevitable crisis point.

Even if he takes blockers and cross sex hormones there is still an inevitable crisis point in turns of sexual function and restrictions to dating / long term relationships.

And that's without considering the possibility of long term complications from medicalisation.

He's been set up from the age of six to believe he can just become a girl.

He has no way to consent or to understand the implications at six.

No one has been kind to him. They continue to be incredibly cruel and negligent.

Jazz Jennings thought it was like a sneeze, but I’m not sure he was told that by anyone else, more his inference. Of course there is no frame of reference for those who are puberty blocked as early as he was.

In gender studies?

Having a doctorate doesn't make you a medical doctor Tandora.

I just can't even read your posts anymore they are so nonsensical and harmful.

If I ever did have sympathy for the points made by trans activists your posts have put me off.