This is why so many women voted Trump

[BabyLlamaZen]

I’m not saying it’s right, I’m not saying it’s worth the horrors of the Trump administration (and what other women’s rights will be abolished). However, I can also empathise. Books like this are everywhere in baby sections of bookshops in USA. My american friend is naturally more conservative than myself although hated Trump and didn’t vote for him previously (she abstained and then she went Biden although she says she seriously regrets) and this time she voted Trump. She said this stuff is now everywhere and it’s constant. She also showed me a baby’s ABC book which included B for bisexual (and literally then described it as people who are sexually attracted to either gender). For babies.

If this has been in any way amplified by the Russian and the Chinese, it's not these stories that have been exploited. They've exploited the mistrust to that's been caused due to lack of due diligence and checks and balances within our democracy ultimately failing and the people feeling like people in power are deliberately trying to suppress and control them.

Exactly .

i'm sure Russia and China like to shit stir. I'm sure there are bots.

But the simple answer to that is if the left don't want people amplifying things that make them left look bad, bloody sort it out.

Take the shit out of the schools. Address the IOC. Sort the equality act out. Disengage from Stonewall.

If you don't want Russia and China to amplify these things, don't allow them to happen!

And personally, you couldn't amplify enough the amount of Ideological and perve adjacent shit our children are taught in schools.

And again, bots wouldn't be able to amplify it, if it was taken out.

Thank you, I read the Cass review the day it was published.

I disagree. I experienced it myself in early adolescence, thankfully at a time before puberty blockers were a thing. It turned out I was ND and bisexual, and my 'innate gendered soul' was that of 'grumpy gender nonconformer'. The dysphoria ran its course over a couple of years. ND women are often hit hard by hormone shifts, including in puberty, pregnancy and menopause.

In a tiny percentage of people gender dysphoria persists and in these cases medically transitioning may in fact alleviate their distress. I personally know two such individuals. For one they have lived 'as a woman' for many years although they have never 'passed'. The other doesn't get out much now, and instead of being the active gay man he was for years is now a 'woman' who never leaves the house due to urinary incontinence and chronic pain. He is a shadow of his former self and one of the saddest examples I have ever seen. He had mild depression on and off throughout his life. Transitioning didn't help in fact his life is now a horror show. Funny how the ideologues never want to hear his story.

Just saying 'This isn't true' doesn't make something untrue. Ironically I know it's a tactic Trump likes using!

and so has bot propaganda

you’re mixing your message up though.

Upthread you were talking about bot message amplification of topics such as men in women’s sport.

Now you’re talking about propaganda, which is different

The majority of children who go on PBs continue onto CSH because PBs are being accurately prescribed to children who are trans and in desperate need of healthcare. This is because PBs are only prescribed after careful assessment to those children who need them.

I was waiting for someone here to agree with this. Russia’s rules are quite draconian and have caused many people to leave the country in fear. Is that what you want for your own country? This is exactly what Russia wanted you say.

Yes we could pretty much keep repeating this post to fill up the thread but I wouldn't want to deny anyone a hobby 😂

Please don't universalise from your own personal experience.

On the original point, it is good to see so much discussion about the impact of this issue on the election, or at least on why people voted for Trump.

I don’t think anyone sensible is suggesting that basic transphobia swayed millions of voters, but that aspects of it impacted on people in their every day lives. That includes parents being demonised for objecting to their daughters competing against boys, or having to share locker rooms with them, critics being labelled transphobic or far right if they dared to insist on women’s rights to privacy and dignity, and the hatred spewed at people who want to give children time to think and develop. But most of all, as Sall Grover said, how do you expect people to believe a word of what the Democrats say when they insist that you believe that a man is a woman when you can see with your own eyes that this is patently false. If Labour don’t learn this lesson fast, they will be toast.

Is that another true and factual thing you tell your five-year-old? 😁

It’s both. Sometimes it’s a fake video or meme (propaganda), sometimes a real event. All are amplified.

🤣🤣🤣

The research quite clearly shows that the vast majority share my experience but then you know that Tandora. It just doesn't suit your narrative. We've heard it all before here.

I know ... I know ... 😂😂😂

Is it Russian bots who are responsible for every fucking place having mixed sex toilets now?

Because I could absolutely do with them amplifying that.

The research quite clearly shows that the vast majority share my experience

It really doesn't; you are not trans and have no experience of what it is like to be trans. Being neurodivergent, bisexual and gender non conforming is not the same as being trans.

Would you have any of those fake videos to hand?

Genuine question. Because I'm sure we do get deceived some of the time.

On the other hand, almost everything I've seen is clearly genuine. But then I would stay that wouldn't I!

Since you brought it up, are you trans?

You’ve had to do such verbal acrobatics to try to phrase hormonal medical intervention as a happy healthy childhood thing.

‘even if their body doesn’t fit your particular idea of how bodies should/ were meant. to be.’

Perhaps if adults didn’t pretend you can change sex or be born in the wrong body, and prioritised counselling over hormones and surgery then children might feel the body they’re born with is the ‘right’ one.

Are you trans Tandora?

Because by your logic only trans people can talk about trans-ness but that would of course bring innate bias into the system, creating an echo chamber in a very small community.

And by the same logic if you're not trans what gives you any more authority to discuss this than anyone else? Some of us have a lot of knowledge of this field

And the consent process is so thorough!

Like at the Keira Bell case where it transpired a 10 year old boy was put on PBs.

Knowing he would likely progress to cross sex hormones (as 98% do) the staff helpfully described to him what an orgasm was like, so he could meaningfully consent to never having one.

I think this is the key statement in the post

If it makes you happy to call these children “male” - go for it- as cruel and erroneous as that is- it has no material relevance.

Two points

There is an assumption that it's all bots.

And there is an assumption there that without social media we would have seen the decline in standards of journalism that we have (we wouldn't - social media proves the strength of desire of the public to know what's happening).

Social media has weakened the checks and balances in a democracy because traditional journalism can't compete financially. So technology change is a factor here.

However the assumption that it's down to political minded bots is a big assumption too.

There are plenty of people who actively make money from pushing extreme stuff because click bait is lucrative. This doesn't mean there is some also some malevolent force masterminding a political agenda either.

There is some interference, but huge amounts of this is being driven domestically by people simply on the grift. Because it's lucrative. And it gives you lots of attention. Rather than because they necessarily seek anything significantly more than that.

I think it's curious to see this dismissal as being an outsider malevolent force, because it really lets people off domestically who have been asleep at the wheel and actively exploiting the same phenomenon for their own ends when it suits them.

No

Jazz Jennings was told it was like a sneeze.

Not sure anyone should be very shocked that someone doesn't care if they never sneeze.