This is why so many women voted Trump

[BabyLlamaZen]

I’m not saying it’s right, I’m not saying it’s worth the horrors of the Trump administration (and what other women’s rights will be abolished). However, I can also empathise. Books like this are everywhere in baby sections of bookshops in USA. My american friend is naturally more conservative than myself although hated Trump and didn’t vote for him previously (she abstained and then she went Biden although she says she seriously regrets) and this time she voted Trump. She said this stuff is now everywhere and it’s constant. She also showed me a baby’s ABC book which included B for bisexual (and literally then described it as people who are sexually attracted to either gender). For babies.

Yes, there is, from you. You are posting outrageous lies and misinformation that goes against what even the pro-trans Mayo Clinic states.

Then perhaps you should clarify because there are some inconsistency to your points.

You are posting outrageous lies and misinformation

I am posting factual information.

Mostly coming from you.

No, you are not! As proven. You are posting lies and disinformation. There is not one thing that is factual that you have posted. Just anti-science lies and disinformation.

And back on the topic of the thread (my italics)....

Political parties that don't listen are doomed to fail.
Trump on the other hand, in order to further his own agenda, has listened. Its difficult to dispute, because he followed concerns. Whether he will action any of this remains to be seen, but he HAS listened and thats what has got ultimately rewarded.
I don't like the man in the slightest, but the Dems have done such a spectacular job of turning off people who naturally lean blue it needs stressing and highlighting repeatedly.

Trump is all about Trump. He's sexist, a convicted felon, is pro-guns and is unpredictable in international diplomacy. I'm glad I don't live in a country with a president like this.

However, he does seem to be genuinely appalled that children and vulnerable young adults are being pulled in to one of the biggest medical scandals the western world has ever seen. He also seems appalled at the unfairness and safety concerns of men identifying in to women's sports.

I have no idea what he'll achieve for the everyday American re job security and cost of living etc. Nor how he'll impact Americans when he says/does something in a ham-fisted way on international diplomacy.

But he'll have a positive impact on tens of thousands of American children and young people if he sorts out the atrocity of "gender affirming care", and hundreds of thousands if he sorts out the unfairness and safety issues in women's sports.

Hopefully Keir Starmer is watching and learning. Bridget Phillipson too. It's no good if Wes Streeting is getting on top of the medical scandal while schools continue to feed the pipeline in to the gender clinics by teaching children that it's possible to be born in the wrong body etc.

I think the three most nonsensical things posted by @Tandora are (summarised for brevity)

-That cosmetic surgery on the genitals, along with medication, changes a person’s sex
-That failure to go through puberty does not result in infertility
-That our understanding of the physiology of reproduction - that there are small and large gametes, and nothing in between - is incomplete or wrong

I find it difficult to comprehend that any sensible person can believe any of these things.

Tandora I would find your zeal admirable if it wasn't for the fact that children (and frankly adults too) are being harmed by trans ideology and treatments. Given the links between autism / same sex attraction / sexual trauma and trans I don't really see how anyone can still be arguing in defence of harming these individuals.

Frankly I feel nothing but contempt for ideologues treating this as some kind of university debating society bit. Some of us are working with the individuals affected by this madness and seeing the terrible harms done when they finally understand the enormity of what this has cost them. Broken family relationships because strangers online urged them to cut off their families unless they acceded to every demand. Broken bodies because of experimental treatments leaving chronic pain and incontinence (and we don't even know the full longterm harms yet). Broken minds and spirits when they finally understand that trans-ing is not the magical solution they thought it would be.

And women are being harmed by these ideologues too. We are losing the most basic rights and courtesies - the rights to privacy and safety in vulnerable situations and the chance to compete fairly in sports. Women have had enough now. So in the USA they have swapped one type of Gender ideologue for another (the pussy grabbing kind). They have swapped the narcissism of one type of reality-denying bs for the narcissism of Trump. At least they (think they) know what they're up against with Trump.

Do you know what might be a good principle / rule of thumb?

Try to have fewer strong opinions about the medical treatment of other people- what they chose , or do not chose , to do with their own bodies for the sake of their own wellbeing and health.

Leave those judgements to the people who inhabit those bodies , and the medical practitioners who have the knowledge and experience to treat them.

If we all abided by this rule of thumb we would have far fewer people supporting men like Trump.

I really hope so or we are heading for a Reform coalition government at the next election.

To clarify for lurkers:

Sperm is developed in the later stages of puberty. If a male is blocked at Tanner stage 2, the earliest stage of puberty no sperm have the chance to develop if that child goes onto cross sex hormones. They are sterile.

If a male is blocked later, when sperm has a chance to develop, they still need to preserve their sperm before progressing onto oestrogen. This is difficult. If sperm preservation is successful, that male would still require artificial fertility services in order to father a child. They are infertile.

Equally, there is published data from the Mayo Clinic, as indicated by TiredEyesSoreHeart that shows testicular sclerosis and loss of sperm-making ability on just puberty blockers alone. This means that even if reversed (which never happens with gender distressed children) it’s likely some males will still have fertility issues as a result of this sclerosis.

Equally, for females, if puberty is blocked at Tanner stage 2, the vulva, vagina, and uterus do not develop properly in order to a) conceive naturally and b) carry a fetus. They would need fertility treatment to even have a chance. Ergo, they are infertile. Girls are not sterilised on account of all females having they eggs from birth. If egg preservation is carried out, this is an invasive procedure and the success rate of a pregnancy from cryo preserved ovarian tissue is incredibly low, and would require intensive fertility services just to stand a chance. Again, they are infertile.

All gender clinics know this, because they have infertility on their consent forms.

As an example, this is the consent form for Johanna Olson Kennedy’s research in LA:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Q-zJCivH-QW7hL25idXT_jITfJZUUm1w/view

This research made the New York Times recently when JOK admitted she didn’t want to publish data that showed puberty blockers in a negative light.

You can see on the consent form for the research trial, on page 32 it clearly states:

If your child starts puberty blockers in the earliest stages of puberty, then goes onto gender affirming hormones, they will not develop sperm or eggs. This means they will not be able to have biological children.

This is a gender clinic research study, being run by a gender affirmation champion, Johanna Olson Kennedy, who is telling children they will be sterile and infertile. So you can either believe her, or Tandora.

These are the incontrovertible facts. Anything else is a distraction.

Bull. Leave it to the parents certainly not some sections of the medical establishment or the state. Which is what Trump has promised.

Interestingly I wonder if Trump being a grandfather and Vance being a parent has helped to bring things to a head.

How unspeakably patronising given what you have written on this thread. I've worked with drug addicts who self-medicated 'for the sake of their own wellbeing and health.' They were doing their best to manage trauma and horror they had experienced as well as undiagnosed mental illness@. It turned out that heroin didn't in fact 'cure' them and their own judgement was unreliable because of their previous experiences. We didn't say yeah you should totally keep taking X substances. We went to the root cause.

Yep. A terrifying thought.

Hopefully the shock of seeing someone as awful as Trump win will be the boot up the backside that liberal/left politicians in the UK need to sort themselves out 🤞

I'm still reeling from how clever the Trump campaign was to push so much funding in to highlighting the impact of gender identity belief - and how well they highlighted Harris' ineptness in this regard. I know it's already on this thread but it's worth putting this link on again (apologies to the person who posted it.. I added the link to my library of useful stuff but can't remember who you are, sorry!):

https://x.com/MaryMargOlohan/status/1854013273802252337?t=860NM8PZJBACmhUCFKm0Rw&s=19

You are obviously very interested in the effects of the medicalisation of gender distress. Have you given any thought to the words of detransitioners? Unsurprisingly, there are increasing numbers of these and their experiences are deeply upsetting. If you are on twitter you could look at Laura Becker, Maia Poet and Chloe Cole in the US and Ritchie Herron in the UK. You are so sure that people simply are transgender like people simply are gay. However, research shows that the majority of gender questioning children desist from the belief that they are the opposite gender. It is clear that medicalising them at a crucial stage for their body and brain development is the opposite of care.

So you are suggesting that better we should "cure" trans people of being trans?

I'm suggesting the state butt out of the brainwashing business.

The overwhelming majority of trans people do not regret their treatment. A small percentage do. This is the same for all kinds of medical procedures - e.g. abortion. This cannot be a reason to deny people (including adolescents) healthcare; it merely underscores the importance of careful assessment and informed consent.

If we had far fewer people promoting a social contagion as a reality, and promoting the idea that people can change sex and promoting to idea that women don't have a right to safe single sex spaces or fair sports, THEN there would be less votes for men like Trump.

Take responsibility for his election. The blame for it lies squarely at the feet of misogynistic ideologues like yourself who are doing everything you possibly can to tear away the gains our forefeminists achieved, to placate the feels of males.

You are so sure that people simply are transgender like people simply are gay

This is exactly right.

Why would you post this?
Female children who are put on puberty blockers and then cross sex hormones DON'T have ovaries that produce eggs.
Male children who are put on puberty blockers and cross sex hormones DON'T have testicles that produce sperm.
So the whole document is a complete and utter non sequiter.
It's all so weasley and sickening.
Thank you @BonfireLady for the information you shared.
Utterly mind boggling that there could be such a silver lining to the election of someone like Trump, but here we are.

This.

We also don't let people suffering from anorexia determine their own physical and mental health treatment pathways.

There are two key facts that need to centring to help fully expose this medical scandal:

1. LGB is nothing to do with T. Yes, there are gay men, lesbian women and bi-sexual people. Yes, this is totally normal and LGB people deserve equal rights in society. Yes, there are people who believe that they are in the wrong body and that their physical body should "align" with their belief. They too deserve equal rights - but obviously not the right to push their belief on to others (e.g. to identify in to women's sports). They also deserve evidence-based healthcare, which leads to....

2. as demonstrated by the Cass Report, the majority of children who identify as a "gender" that differs from their sex have underlying complexities, which haven't been unpicked from their belief that they are in the wrong body. For example, many are autistic. This means that their distress about their body could be explained by sensory issues or a reaction to their body changing during puberty, alongside cognitive processing issues about what it means to "be" female/male. And no, it's not "ableist" to say this. Some of the most academically able autistic children and young people have cognitive processing difficulties which require support in schools and colleges via their EHCPs. It's not a massive leap of logic to see that their understanding of "male" and "female" may be compromised by all the misinformation that is currently pushed in schools and social media, ostensibly to challenge sex-based stereotypes... but instead reinforcing them, so that to "be" female becomes linked to dresses and a gentle personality etc and to "be" male becomes linked to a preference for practical clothing and playing competitive sport etc.

Edited to correct typos.

I should have added that, in addition to posting nonsense, you manage to do it in a singularly offensive, condescending and patronising way.

There are a lot of people on MN who STILL despite it being repeated frequently, do not wish to acknowledge that a) people with DSDs do not want to be weaponised and trojaned to further a trans militant agenda b) this does not stop people with DSDs still being on a sex binary and this sex binary still holds relevance and importance in certain areas and can not be ignored - like sport c) this number of people really is very tiny indeed and only represents only a small percentage of people with DSDs who are a small group as it is.

HTH

A majority of gender questioning children desist from believing they are the opposite gender.
https://www.transgendertrend.com/children-change-minds/

Wake up @Tandora