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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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32
ChishiyaBat · 04/11/2024 13:37
Surprised Meme GIF

Well this cannot be a shock to anyone who watched the olympics, except it is and people will still defend him!
I can't feel sorry for him, he knew what he was doing when he robbed those women of their hard earned medals/places in the olympics.

CatusFlatus · 04/11/2024 13:39

lcakethereforeIam · 04/11/2024 12:12

There should be mandatory chromosome/sex testing, because I'm feeling generous, some immediate help available for the athletes that might fail. Some of them may genuinely not have an earthly that they're genetically male.

It's my understanding that most individuals with DSDs would be aware of their medical condition. It's certainly the case with the DSD Khalif has. He would have been aware before 2023 that he was male. Ditto Semenya et al.

NoBinturongsHereMate · 04/11/2024 13:40

BecauseRonald · 04/11/2024 11:58

Imane Khelif

I understand that Khelif identifies as a woman. I'm happy to be corrected. Personally I think that people with DSD should be able to choose their social identity if that makes sense. For DSD and sports, I think the criteria that olympics athletics has is pretty good.

Why should a man who has been through male puberty be able to choose 'woman' as his social identity?

BecauseRonald · 04/11/2024 13:41

BreatheAndFocus · 04/11/2024 13:21

You’re too kind. I thought that at first but having looked at some of the imbecilic comments on SM, I’ve concluded that many people who believe in gender ideology are just thick.

What I’d like is for all the hand-wringing celebs who kept saying that IK was a biological woman to be made to admit they were wrong. I’d also like corrections to all the media articles that said IK was a biological female.

It was patently bloody obvious what IK’s sex was and the fact some people wouldn’t see it is enraging.

Oh yes I would love to see retractions but I doubt they will happen. I fully expect the complicit silence Semenya has benefitted from, or the ambiguous "she has naturally high levels of testosterone" (ie normal for a bloody male).

Disorders like 5ARD are complex and don't lend themselves to soundbites. For people who aren't interested or find it all a bit confusing it's much easier to shut the conversation down with "can't we just be kiiiind??"

So yeah it turns out it wasn't...
The nasty terfs
Racist white women and their oppressive femininity standards
Evil JKR
The healthy mountain air in Algeria
The fact that she just trains harder and is better than y'all whiney women
A Russian conspiracy

It was just another cheating male

MagpiePi · 04/11/2024 13:47

puffyisgood · 04/11/2024 11:40

i don't necessarily blame IK, who could conceivably consider herself to be 'intersex' or 'nonbinary' or whatever, it's probably understandable that she'd compete against women if given the chance given that same sex competition would leave no prospect of international success.

the blame lies entirely with the IOC, who had access to all of the information and resources they needed to reach a sensible decision, but blew it completely.

There are thousands and thousands of men who have no prospect of international sporting success. It doesn’t mean they can choose to compete in women’s competitions.

commonsense61 · 04/11/2024 13:50

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

BreatheAndFocus · 04/11/2024 13:55

A male regardless of gender identity or dsd should not be competing int he female sporting category

Absolutely - but particularly not in boxing IMO.

Helleofabore · 04/11/2024 14:16

BreatheAndFocus · 04/11/2024 13:55

A male regardless of gender identity or dsd should not be competing int he female sporting category

Absolutely - but particularly not in boxing IMO.

Especially not in boxing.

This is not just running an 800 m race. This is punching women in the face.

Let’s not forget this.

Helleofabore · 04/11/2024 14:21

I think that the video footage and photos that have been published featuring Khelif have shown that claims that this person believed they were female are to be questioned. Because Khelif does not sit like a woman at all. What woman sits for a photo shoot man spreading? Even when wearing shorts or trousers. These are not female mannerisms that I would expect from a young woman from a conservative country.

I am not convinced at all that Khelif has believed that Khelif is female since going through puberty.

theilltemperedqueenofspacetime · 04/11/2024 14:23

BreatheAndFocus · 04/11/2024 13:55

A male regardless of gender identity or dsd should not be competing int he female sporting category

Absolutely - but particularly not in boxing IMO.

Yes, particularly this. Did you know that male boxers don't wear helmets because their punching power is so great that the risk of a broken neck (torsion injury from catching on the helmet) greatly outweighs that of a fractured skull?

Now, women have much thinner skulls, so they do wear helmets. Lucky they don't risk a broken neck from being punched by men, isn't it?

Legoninjago1 · 04/11/2024 14:25

That poor woman going in the ring with this fucking guy. Makes me feel sick.

Legoninjago1 · 04/11/2024 14:26

Sorry for my potty mouth but it does.

NutellaEllaElla · 04/11/2024 14:49

The bizarre posters on this thread who are defending it are frying my brain, just why? Despite leading with 'awww the poor hurty feelings', you don't care about women's feelings and rights obviously. Happy to suck up to the men for some crumbs. Take a look at yourself!

illinivich · 04/11/2024 14:50

It wasn't even a mistake. From the minute he was scouted for boxing, to the Olympic committee saying they couldn't definine eligibility into the female category, to him in the ring with women, it was planned.

There are so many people who, for a variety of reasons, want sex to disappear as a category, and the all colluded to make this possible.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/11/2024 14:54

Completely agree @illinivich

MarieDeGournay · 04/11/2024 14:55

GingerBeverage · 04/11/2024 13:47

“In Suffering, Champions Are Born”: An Eye-Opening Conversation With Algerian Olympic Gold Medalist Imane Khelif

https://en.vogue.me/culture/algerian-olympic-gold-medalist-imane-khelif-vogue-arabia-interview/

Well those photos put the cat amongst the pigeons, the pigeons in the opinion-forming part of my brain, that is! Hmmmm. Embracing androgyny, bigtime. Rather successfully, from a fashion point of view, I think. Maybe a new career in modelling will keep him out of the boxing ring, that would be a blessingSmile

NutellaEllaElla · 04/11/2024 14:58

MarieDeGournay · 04/11/2024 14:55

Well those photos put the cat amongst the pigeons, the pigeons in the opinion-forming part of my brain, that is! Hmmmm. Embracing androgyny, bigtime. Rather successfully, from a fashion point of view, I think. Maybe a new career in modelling will keep him out of the boxing ring, that would be a blessingSmile

Those pictures are hilarious. I don't really understand second hand embarrassment but I got major cringe from looking at them.

HerGorgeousMajestyArabellaScott · 04/11/2024 15:04

theilltemperedqueenofspacetime · 04/11/2024 14:23

Yes, particularly this. Did you know that male boxers don't wear helmets because their punching power is so great that the risk of a broken neck (torsion injury from catching on the helmet) greatly outweighs that of a fractured skull?

Now, women have much thinner skulls, so they do wear helmets. Lucky they don't risk a broken neck from being punched by men, isn't it?

Yes. It's not just hurt feelings. He could kill a woman.

DeanElderberry · 04/11/2024 15:11

Good thing the story has broken just before the entire focus of the world's news media turns the US election results and the aftermath thereof for the next two months.

puffyisgood · 04/11/2024 15:21

Helleofabore · 04/11/2024 14:21

I think that the video footage and photos that have been published featuring Khelif have shown that claims that this person believed they were female are to be questioned. Because Khelif does not sit like a woman at all. What woman sits for a photo shoot man spreading? Even when wearing shorts or trousers. These are not female mannerisms that I would expect from a young woman from a conservative country.

I am not convinced at all that Khelif has believed that Khelif is female since going through puberty.

We're both speculating wildly here, but whilst I agree that IK's dress sense and general comportment probably do hint at a degree of 'living as a man'... it is, I suppose, possible that IK considered herself to be a 'male-identifying female' and therefore eligible to compete against women in the same way as other 'trans men' or 'non binary womb havers' in this Olympics, per the link below. the problem seems to be that IK was only half right in this consideration.

www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/olympics/article-13701255/Hergie-Bacyadan-female-boxer-identifies-man-calls-fighters-fail-gender-tests-banned-Imane-Khelif-Lin-Yu-ting-Angela-Carini-Paris-Olympics.html

Firealarm1414 · 04/11/2024 15:24

Just like Caster semenya, there would have been no doubt about their biological sex when they started to go through male puberty. They knew what they were from a young age and chose to use this to their advantage to beat women in sports (one of them literally). Just look how Khelif is not treated like a female by his male coaches, doesn't seemed concerned about wearing hijab etc

lcakethereforeIam · 04/11/2024 15:27

I'm pretty certain Khelif is vehement that he isn't trans identifying.

Chersfrozenface · 04/11/2024 15:34

lcakethereforeIam · 04/11/2024 15:27

I'm pretty certain Khelif is vehement that he isn't trans identifying.

Indeed. A quote from Khelif
"They don't have the right to say that I'm transgender. This is a big insult to my family, to the honor of my family, to the honor of Algeria, to the women of Algeria and especially for the Arab world."

My source, Africa News, but also reported elsewhere.

Snowypeaks · 04/11/2024 15:35

And it was mightily amusing to see TAs defending the right of a man who claims to be a woman to be "offended" at being thought to be...a man who claims to be a woman.