12 ways to gently respectfully challenge pro-trans arguments

[Ladyof2024]

I thought this might come in useful to those just beginning to take on the opposition.
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Twelve Ways to Voice Opposition to Daft Ideas Without Losing Friends or Alienating People, by Joanna Gray.

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How to get better at objecting to unedifying ideas

Ask the person suggesting an obviously daft idea if he or she would mind if you shared your opinion about it, rather than foisting it on him or her uninvited.

Respect others’ intentions. Most people are good and are trying their best, so avoid a heavy-handed aggressive disapproval.

Ask questions: “That’s such an interesting idea Chancellor, what are you hoping to achieve by it?” Often, that is sufficient: if the idea is flawed it will unravel itself in no time.

Remember your Aristotle: to win debates you need ethos, logos and pathos. Ethos is your good character and your authority to speak on the subject – most crudely used by those who say “as a mother…”. Logos is the truth of the matter. Pathos is your ability to persuade your opponent. Emotion alone is insufficient to win the point, it must be backed up by truth, but an ability to connect with and respect the emotion of your opponent is vital.

Remember you are debating the idea not the person. Don’t make him or her feel threatened, belittled or ill-informed.

Just try it! You don’t need to present a fully formed Douglas Murray-style-gotcha speech, initially it might just be sufficient to say, “I’m not yet sure why, but this idea is making me feel uncomfortable, may I have a think about it and get back to you?” If social or career disaster doesn’t follow, then you may feel emboldened to make a more spirited and researched objection later.

Be prepared to flatter. “You will know more about this than me but have you thought about…”

Listen to your opponent. Don’t stand there rolling your eyes, tutting or guffawing,

Remain calm and never shout.

Be prepared to use their own language. “Chancellor, this act of removing artworks of men might be considered by some to sit adjacent to sexism…”

Be satisfied with having planted a seed of doubt in those who listen to you, rather than furiously fighting for decisive victory.

Remind yourself why making a stand is important: “If not me, who? If not now, when?”

It’s the context it’s used in- trans children don’t exist- that is cruel and unfeeling. Again obviously.

So they believe that gender identities have matching sexes? Eg, that there's something female about a woman?

So you don’t believe people can be trans at all? Seriously??

Don’t worry guys, very few of the GC posters on FWR are at risk of ever being seen as gently respectful.

Yet here you are. Again.

No child has a gender "congruent" or incongruent with their sex.

Because no one is born with an inherent belief in gender ideology in the first place. Unless you learn it somewhere along the way, then you need support.

A child whose gender is incongruent with the sex assigned to them at birth. Obviously.

There's no "obvious" about it. What's a "gender"? Sex isn't "assigned at birth", it's visible in utero via ultrasound and genetic testing.

It’s the context it’s used in- trans children don’t exist

It's a phrase that @DoIEver used. They literally strawmanned their own post and complained about their own language.

No one thinks this group of children who you are talking about don't exist. What you and the pp take issue with is that we don't believe in your ideology.

I believe people can want to be the opposite sex.
I believe that thinking there are things about someone as a person- character, soul, personality, preferences, skills, desires etc - that are inherently incongruent with being male or female is sexist.

Well lots of people on this thread have used "exist" , "existence" and phrases like "no such thing" . I am not sure what your point is here.

My point is that the distress that these children feel is very real and I think some posters on here come across as being dismissive of this suffering.

To be absolutely clear, I don't think that children should be given puberty blockers, cross sex hormones, breast binders or anything like that.

I’ve met many many children, some with gender dysphoria. None are ‘trans children’ as that’s not a thing. Why do you think I’d deny the existence of someone standing in front of me? And what exactly do you mean by ‘lived reality’?
The reality of a gender confused child is that they’ve been told by the adults that of course they can change sex. Of course they were born in the wrong body. Of course they don’t need to go through puberty and it won’t negatively affect them for the rest of their lives. In other words, they’ve been lied to.

So you don’t believe people can be trans at all? Seriously??

I do 100% believe that there are people who believe they are trans.

So you don’t believe people can be trans at all?

Again, what actually does this mean? Do I believe there are a group of people who label themselves "trans"? Yes.

Do I believe the same about it that they do? No.

What is my ideology? Do you think I'm a TRA 😂

The concept of ‘trans children’ doesn’t exist in reality. In fact, the whole concept of ‘trans’ is based in fantasy. Because no one can change sex.

I was quoting another poster in this post who used the word exist.

You can see it right there in the post you are quoting.

I don't think people can change sex either,despite the fact that a poster above thinks I must be a TRA if I don't agree with every word posted.

The distress exists. The child exists. The distress is not "being trans". It's "being trans" that doesn't exist, not the child with the distress.
And you claim that because we don't believe that the child is in the wrong body, or has the wrong brain, we don't care about their suffering. You're the one who used the word "exist" about the children.
We want to help them. Actually help them with their actual problems.

Sex isn’t assigned at birth. It’s observed and recorded in 99.9% of cases unless the baby has an undiagnosed DSD. These days, most mothers know the sex of their child before it’s even born. I myself knew I was having a daughter at 20 week’s gestation via amniocentesis.
’Gender incongruence’ relies on stereotypes that people of a particular sex should look and behave in a particular way.

Isn't it odd how women saying "no" fires up the crazy?

@ElleWoods15
What is gender?

@DoIEver

The poster you replied to, @Snowypeaks
berating them for using "exist" when they called you out on the loaded nature of it, wasn't the same poster you quoted. Who also didn't use "exist" in the way you are complaining about.

I don't play others silly games and I don't talk to imaginary friends. They can play pretend all they like but I'm not playing it with them.

I didn't call you a TRA, @DoIEver so please stop misrepresenting my posts.

And yet actually if you speak to children who are trans you find that for some, the fact they are a gender other than the sex assigned to them at birth had been communicated by them to their care givers long before anyone could have taught them about ‘gender ideology’.

And this is why my point is people who have no experience of ever having spoken to such children shouldn’t be so dismissive of them.

You referred to gender idiology as my idiology.

You tagged me a in post saying

What you and the pp take issue with is that we don't believe in your ideology.

That seems like you think I'm a TRA.