Moira Deeming in Australia - thread 3

[TheSandgroper]

Following on from busy threads 1 and 2

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5167282-in-australia-moira-deeming-defamation-trial-now-on

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5172553-moira-deeming-defamation-trial-thread-2-from-australia

Keep on discussing, ladies. Change never happens in silence.

Before this thread closes for the duration, can I recommend Welcome to the Dollhouse, the you tube channel of Kit and Edie who are absolutely banging on all things gender. Yes it has a Aussie slant but they are so on the ball they are amazing.

I concur @AlisonDonut - I’ve been working my way through their back catalogue of episodes over the last few weeks and enjoying their frank discussions and analysis.

Helleofabore · Today 07:31

It is remarkable isn’t it when you look at the Judges reaction to the dossier. It seemed to me that when the Judge questioned the dossier, he echoed what we have been saying on MN since that dossier was produced. That was based such weak evidence and too many falsehoods. That too much of it, if not all, was guilt by association, bad faith interpretations, and clear falsehoods. Yet we have been told on MN for 18 months that the dossier was correct and that we just didn’t like the truth.

I suppose people tend to think the worst of those they dislike and believe any bad-mouthing. I think I'd probably believe it if I read that Trump had thrown a sack of puppies in a pond, because it seems credible.

But if I then read that an AI video had been faked, I'd be a bit embarrassed, but admit that I'd been a mug. It wouldn't be the first time!

Thank you to all who updated the thread with the happenings in this important case now to await the judgment.

I have been listening to them since the Dollhouse started. I bloody love them. I named kittens after them.

KJK has gleefully and loudly trolled Collins. It was live on Twitter and is now available on YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/live/XOpZdCLoeTU?si=FP8zilmeVRrHGbe4

Only halfway through that one, but damn it's good.

Watching it now, thanks for the link Feral 👍

I saw the tail end earlier, will watch the whole thing tomorrow.

It feels like so many gay men hate/have no use for/denigrate women. At least those that are in the pro TRAs camp. I never use to think that until the tsunami of TRA / MRAs facilitated whole sweeping changes in policy across education, health care and civil service either colonising or erasing women. Men.

Yes, aided by some women but not started by them. Started, advocated , pushed by men.

Dr Collins certainly has a way with words! He "cannot conceive of a universe" in which the judge disagreed with him. Interesting if in the end it’s acceptable for Deeming to be expelled based on an opinion.

Do you know what, after thinking about this for a day, I think that the Presutto law team don't believe a word of it and are hamming it up. They are being paid to defend the indefensible so are just going for what they have been told to go for. Like all good lawyers of course.

They may not believe a word of it, but it wouldn’t be a surprise to find out those lawyers ultimately harboured disdain for the female sex.

Just watched the KJK video and was also not surprised to see the three SRA NB/trans speakers are men. This and following Gisele Pelicot’s trial further opens my eyes to how men (I know, I know, NAMALT) see women as disposable.

As nothing more than a collection of body parts. Less than. To be disregarded, discarded or disdained. Our words and anger no more than the yapping of a small annoying dog. How are we still here after a hundred years of fighting for our rights? Is late capitalist modernity the culprit? Fanning the latent misogynist fires until it’s scorching us. And now the tech bro titans are moving in to rule the world. That’s going to help our cause. Not. It really is so depressing.

Remembering that, as discussed earlier, Mr Collins partner is a LBGTQ++ activist.

Just watched the KJK video and was also not surprised to see the three SRA NB/trans speakers are men.

DH was sitting next to me while I was watching and he looked over at my screen when it got to this part. He asked where the NB people were. Told him it was the three men who looked men, including the man with long hair. Expletives came out of his mouth. He thought it was bullshit and that they’re just taking advantage of things to advance their careers.

DH had said something earlier about TW should be allowed in women’s spaces if they’ve had the chop. I said no, they’re still men and they can fuck off to the men’s. He looked surprised. There’s more to a man than a penis. Far greater strength than a woman, for one.

After the KJK video I showed him a video of a transwoman who has undergone SRS and was showing the dilators he has to use. He watched it and was thoroughly confused. Told him that was a man who was legally a woman and has had the chop. Stunned silence. He said that the person looked nothing like a woman. Told him exactly and that’s why transwomen, including ones who have had it chopped and turned inside out, aren’t women and should keep out of women’s spaces.

This trial has peaked him. He had been a few years ago but then went back to be kind. Not now.

@FeralWoman my DH assumed the same ie it’s okay for those men post SRS to be in woman’s spaces. We’ve spoken about how that doesn’t wash.

Years ago I would’ve accepted the same. Not now. Not after the move into rape centres, sports, prisons, short lists, associations, award categories, and hospitals. Not after the move to erasing woman, mother, motherhood, breastfeeding, and coming for female. Especially not after they came for vulnerable children and young people.

With every push forward, my tolerance receded.

@DrBlackbird A way to get my point across to DH is to ask how he’d feel if our vulnerable, short, ASD, teen DD went into the women’s toilets and then a transwoman went in. His jaw tensed up and his hands partially clenched. He said he want to go after the TW and tell him to keep out of the women’s toilets. Told him that he can’t because it would be discrimination. That he’d be the one in the wrong in the eyes of the law. He gave a few other options of what he’d do. I told him that he couldn’t do any of them under the sex discrimination laws in our country. That if he did anything other than shut up and do nothing then he’d be in the wrong.

He was kind of furious that as a protective dad that he’d have to stand back and leave DD unprotected from a man in a woman’s space. He said it was bullshit. Absolutely it is. He said that in that case he’d guiding her into the disabled toilet where she’s the only one in there and he can stand guard over the door. DD does have ASD and anxiety and hates using public toilets, even with me in the next cubicle. Warned him that a wheelchair user might get pissed off at him. He said he’ll take the risk if it keeps DD safe.

This was after we’d seen a TW at the local shops. A tall young man in a short skirt, thigh high socks with bows and high heeled boots. Something that no average woman would wear to buy groceries. Looked a bit like an anime character or a p0rn teen. He sure pushed the trolley to his car like a man, lifted grocery bags like a man, and sat down in the driver’s seat like a man with no thought of getting in modestly while wearing a short skirt. He did nothing wrong or offensive but I’m sure he’d use the women’s toilets.

In the past week or two I’ve been educating him about AGP. That’s blown his mind. I think he’d like to scrub and bleach his brain.

You answered your own feeling about gay men hating women when you added 'At least those that are in the pro TRAs camp'.

Don't forget the gay men who are resolutely and proudly anti gender ideology, and don't forget the G in LGB Alliance. And the majority of gay men who just get on with things, interacting with women - in their families, at work, socially - in a way that is neither hateful nor denigrating towards women.
Gay groups have been infiltrated and 'captured' as well as women's groups.

The problem is, as you say further into your post, men. Men who erase/hate/denigrate/abuse/kill women. Some of them gay, but the majority straight.

Perhaps my comments sounded too sweeping and I know that I should not forget those gay men @MarieDeGournay who also recognise the harm that gender ideology does including to many young gay men who become convinced that what’s happening is that they’re trans as a reaction to homophobia.

However, it does seem that there is a preponderance of older gay men in positions of authority and policy development who are pushing GI/ TRA agenda as pointed out in these threads. To the point of my being surprised. Because I foolishly assumed the G in the LGB would readily and easily see the wider harm of GI to the gay community.

However, there’s no shortage on a lack of critical thinking regardless of one’s demographic. And yes, back to men being the issue.

Just saw that judgement will be handed down on Thursday (12/12) at 10.15am.

That's Melbourne time, obv.

Thanks @mothra I hope that the judge is quick. I want to hit the road after rush hour.

Thanks @mothra , so 11.15 pm on Wednesday UK time then
Will it be livestreamed, do we know?

The judge was quick. I am hoping for a good result for Moira.

Acording to a thread on TwiX it will be livestreamed on the same Youtube channel as before.