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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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47
FeralWoman · 24/10/2024 05:40

NotBadConsidering · 24/10/2024 05:34

Such a contrast between Collins and Crysthanthou.

Yes. Thank goodness Collins has STFU and Chrysanthou has the microphone again. She’s clear in her speech and argument, speaks loud enough and is close to the microphone, and speaks in a way that is bearable for a human listener.

BezMills · 24/10/2024 05:43

FeralWoman · 24/10/2024 05:40

Yes. Thank goodness Collins has STFU and Chrysanthou has the microphone again. She’s clear in her speech and argument, speaks loud enough and is close to the microphone, and speaks in a way that is bearable for a human listener.

All things that you'd expect someone whose actual job is to argue in court would be really good at!

NotBadConsidering · 24/10/2024 06:01

I went back to listen, he actually said that some of the comments about Mr Pesutto’s legal team have been negative, on social media etc. He’s essentially said “they’re saying mean things about me and how bad I am, wah!” 🤣

Datun · 24/10/2024 06:32

What the judge and Collins have said today has been extraordinary. Collins has gone full TRA and said something along the lines of TRAs (but pretty sure he meant trans) are a more vulnerable minority than children. The judge is 100% peaked. Collins was going on about terfs denying and hating the humanity and dignity of trans people and the judge asked but what about the humanity and dignity of little girls in change rooms. Collins dismissed that and went back to TRAs and trans. At one point he even said to the judge “so what?” when the judge asked him about something to do with sex based rights

Talk about undermining your own case!

We didn't defame her but she is all the things she said she is.

FeralWoman · 24/10/2024 06:49

Beardy Bloke reappeared and stroked his beard again. Judge is after a document from the junior lawyers.

The judge is trying to wrap it up so everyone can go home. Thirty minutes over time. People have planes to catch. He still hopes to give a decision this year.

Done. Court is adjourned until the decision.

Before the feed cut Collins and Chrysanthou hugged each other, and said something about seeing each other next week in Sydney. Guess the nastiness and insults stay in the court! They’re constantly either teaming up or opposing each other as two of the top defamation lawyers in Australia.

TheSandgroper · 24/10/2024 06:51

Well. That was all very interesting though I saw little of it.

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 24/10/2024 07:31

It will be great to get a decision this year. It does sound as though the judge has a balanced view about the bad faith interpretations that have formed the basis for Pesutto’s defence.

It is remarkable isn’t it when you look at the Judges reaction to the dossier. It seemed to me that when the Judge questioned the dossier, he echoed what we have been saying on MN since that dossier was produced. That was based such weak evidence and too many falsehoods. That too much of it, if not all, was guilt by association, bad faith interpretations, and clear falsehoods. Yet we have been told on MN for 18 months that the dossier was correct and that we just didn’t like the truth.

I realised when some people over the past 18 months doubled down on saying that the dossier was accurate and truthful just how different some people’s understanding of what is accurate information varies significantly.

And it was not just one or two posters who tried to push that dossier, there were more. But generally what I found in common was that they were also the same posters who found it seemingly impossible to think that someone can be interviewed by another person while the two people can have opposing views. Or that their supposed agreement on a topic is only superficial. That they don’t agree on many aspects despite some people’s need for them to be ‘aligned’. It is such a simplistic view that I used to wonder how I was missing what they were seeing.

Well, this court case shows how a group of highly educated people can be so fearful of being labelled as transphobic that they would go along with agreeing that a poorly evidenced dossier, put together in less than 20 minutes from Wikipedia was a solid truthful document. The fear of being seen as on the wrong side of history is such a strong motivator isn’t it?

TheSandgroper · 24/10/2024 07:44

@Helleofabore I like your comment. But the dossier was colllated by a bunch of staffers who have all gone through university in Victoria in the past few years. Imagine what they have been told repeatedly.

Do they really not want to be on the wrong side of history or can they simply not see what the problem is?

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 24/10/2024 07:55

TheSandgroper · 24/10/2024 07:44

@Helleofabore I like your comment. But the dossier was colllated by a bunch of staffers who have all gone through university in Victoria in the past few years. Imagine what they have been told repeatedly.

Do they really not want to be on the wrong side of history or can they simply not see what the problem is?

Ultimately though, wasn’t the person who put it together Rodrigo Pintos Lopez? I mean, I know exactly what you mean about some Victorian unis but RPL most recently went through Harvard too! What does that say about Harvard Law School and the veracity of their research???

Datun · 24/10/2024 08:03

*At one point he even said to the judge “so what?” when the judge asked him about something to do with sex based rights

I'm still chucking about this.

OP posts:
TheSandgroper · 24/10/2024 08:10

And Rodrigo wotsisface I know nothing about.

OP posts:
TheSandgroper · 24/10/2024 08:17

@Helleofabore I have googled. I don’t think Rodrigo will put this case on his cv. https://www.acumenadvisory.co/#About

If Pesutto loses, it would be interesting to look at his (Rodrigo’s) company’s annual report next year because I don’t think he hit his KPI with this one. How attractive is he going to be?

Acumen Advisory

Acumen Advisory is a fully integrated, strategic crisis & reputation management group founded by partners Rodrigo Pintos-Lopez and Nick Johnston.

https://www.acumenadvisory.co/#About

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 24/10/2024 09:11

TheSandgroper · 24/10/2024 08:17

@Helleofabore I have googled. I don’t think Rodrigo will put this case on his cv. https://www.acumenadvisory.co/#About

If Pesutto loses, it would be interesting to look at his (Rodrigo’s) company’s annual report next year because I don’t think he hit his KPI with this one. How attractive is he going to be?

Oh yes. It has been said before that if his dossier integrity is a sample of his strategic ability then ‘Acumen’ is most definitely a misnomer for that business.

I suspect though, sadly, he will get business from some groups because of his dossier. Because some groups, with Victorian govt funding, may well think that it was a pearler of a dossier and will seek him out. 😉

BezMills · 24/10/2024 09:22

He might be best to look out a new domain which better fits his performance.

I just checked and

www.dossiersofbarkerparcels.au is available.

FeralWoman · 24/10/2024 09:32

So, after @TheSandgroper posted a link about Collins above I then read this tweet about Collins’ partner:
https://x.com/Kali__Yuga__/status/1849350099933294634

No wonder he went off so much today. Plus, his partner is Jewish.

Moira Deeming in Australia - thread 3
FeralWoman · 24/10/2024 09:35

Here’s a good summary of the final arguments by Chrysanthou. The tweeter is raloralo.
https://x.com/raloralo/status/1849345233982767351

Moira Deeming in Australia - thread 3
TheSandgroper · 24/10/2024 09:58

Ladies of Mumsnet. Thank you all very much for keeping these threads going for 90 pages and 19 days of legal argument and discussion.

I am appreciative of all the time, effort, patience and knowledge you have contributed. I am in awe of our power.

OP posts:
LongtailedTitmouse · 24/10/2024 10:29

Isn’t it contempt of court for a lawyer to state in closing arguments something which evidence has clearly shown to be untrue? I know you can argue interpretation of the facts but when you are completely misrepresenting the facts?

Snowypeaks · 24/10/2024 11:45

LongtailedTitmouse · 24/10/2024 10:29

Isn’t it contempt of court for a lawyer to state in closing arguments something which evidence has clearly shown to be untrue? I know you can argue interpretation of the facts but when you are completely misrepresenting the facts?

IANAL and I have no direct experience of courtrooms, but my sense is that a lie/untruth/falsehood is defined quite narrowly. So what the woman in the street would say was a lie might not be if there is any element of interpretation, or if the statement is strictly, literally true but utterly misleading out of context, or in practice.

Snowypeaks · 24/10/2024 11:47

I await his honour's judgement.

Well done to Moira Deeming and her brilliant legal team - whatever happens, they have made us proud.

And thanks so much to the sensible and helpful contributors on this thread, especially those in Australia who have provided essential and interesting context.

LongtailedTitmouse · 24/10/2024 11:55

Snowypeaks · 24/10/2024 11:45

IANAL and I have no direct experience of courtrooms, but my sense is that a lie/untruth/falsehood is defined quite narrowly. So what the woman in the street would say was a lie might not be if there is any element of interpretation, or if the statement is strictly, literally true but utterly misleading out of context, or in practice.

Yes I suspect so. But even if not legally contempt of court, it does seem to be treating the court with contempt to so clearly deny the evidence like that.

Snowypeaks · 24/10/2024 12:12

And I bet there's a very specific definition of contempt of court as well! 😁

lifeturnsonadime · 24/10/2024 13:15

Thanks OP and all contributors. I have learned loads from these threads, especially about the Australian political system.

Good luck to Moira, whatever the outcome light has been shone on impact of 'gender' on women and children.

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